UFC: Brock Lesnar dominates Frank Mir and GSP rolls
- Thread starter Clark Kent
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Empty Hands
Senior Master
Lesnar was right. Mir got lucky. You'll notice Lesnar didn't make that mistake or a similar one this time.
No, there is a lot more than 20 lbs difference between them. Lesnar had to drastically cut to reach 265. Most of the estimates I've seen had him fighting at around 290. He trains and walks around at 300+. I don't think Mir cut at all. He would be a fool to do so.
There is no doubt he trained hard, but there is also no doubt that his massive size, strength, and surprising speed and endurance make up for a lack of skill. He compounds that truth by being an enormous jackass. Hence the reactions he gets, which makes the UFC even more money. That is the reason Lesnar got a title shot after only 3 matches in his life, no matter that it made the fans howl. They still watched.
Empty Hands
Senior Master
Speaking of bad behavior and sportsmanship...at least Brock confined it to acting stupid. He didn't take an enormous gratuitous damaging shot at a completely unconscious and helpless opponent. I'm surprised no one has criticized Henderson more for this. No, the ref hadn't got there yet, but his last punch still showed a lack of honor and class. Considering that Bisping was completely unconscious, Henderson could have destroyed his jaw or otherwise seriously injured him. He also admitted that he knew Bisping was unconscious and took the shot anyway. Not cool in my book.
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
Controversy sells.
Anyway, I find it interesting how everyone jumps on Lesnar for his childish behavior after this fight yet nobody seems to remember his sportsmanship and respect involved in his fight with Couture.
If you want people to talk and get them pumped to watch another PPV which behavior do you think you'd actually prefer? Which one sells the most tickets?
Anyway, I find it interesting how everyone jumps on Lesnar for his childish behavior after this fight yet nobody seems to remember his sportsmanship and respect involved in his fight with Couture.
If you want people to talk and get them pumped to watch another PPV which behavior do you think you'd actually prefer? Which one sells the most tickets?
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
I cant believe that I am gonn atalk about MMA n anything other than a mocking tone, but
I just watched the lesner Mir fight.
Lesner was smart, patient, and brilliant in sticking to his game plan. He shut down Mir taking him down and staying chest to chest. He waited for the right time and BOOM, unleashed his power
give the man his props
I just watched the lesner Mir fight.
Lesner was smart, patient, and brilliant in sticking to his game plan. He shut down Mir taking him down and staying chest to chest. He waited for the right time and BOOM, unleashed his power
give the man his props
Haven't seen it but it sounds like it should be a disqualification.
Even if it were accidental, gloating about it is bad form.
zDom
Senior Master
I agree. It was vicious and unsportsmanlike. He's lucky he didn't really injure Bisp as it crossed the line from fighting sport moment into an assault, in my opinion.
I wish the ref would have been a bit more "on the ball" to protect the unconcious fighter. (I'm sure he was just taken by surprise by the knockout and reacted as soon as he could. He DID get there in time to pull Henderson off and prevent ANOTHER shot...)
zDom
Senior Master
I disagree. Getting people pumped and selling tickets is no excuse.
As I've stated before, in something like WWF, I think its fine: most reasonable people realize it's all a show and the trash talk is part of that show.
In MMA events, everyone trains hard and risks serious injury and even crippling career-ending injuries, and on a given day ANYONE can make a mistake and end up eating a punch and ending up bleeding on the mat.
They all deserve respect from their opponents.
GSP entertains, he puts on a great fight, he sells tickets. I always go out to watch the events with GSP. And he has, as far as I've seen, always been a great sport, a class act.
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
What?
He followed him down just like any other fighter would when knocking their opponent to the ground. I've seen guys knocked out and take 3-4 shots before the ref pulled them off. I'd say the ref did an outstanding job and Henderson was just doing his job as well.
It's what he said he did, not anyone elses opinion or what they thought they saw. Henderson said he did it on purpose and he knew Mikey was out. Perhaps it's just talk by him but it's not nice thats for sure.
No ref should be taken by surprise by anything, a KO can come seemingly at random -the so called 'lucky punch' or after a flurry of punches, it can also come from any strike, knee, elbow, kick etc, it should never take the ref by surprise and even i can dive in quick enough to stop more punches being thrown so no excuse for a UFC ref.
bowser666
2nd Black Belt
I agree with that 100%. He even admitted it when Rogan asked him. Everyone is talking about how unsportsmanlike Lesnar was yet not many are mentioning the uncalled for strike after Bisping was obviously KO'd. That ref should get suspended as well for not stopping it.
AceHBK
Master Black Belt
I have to agree with Celtic.
Hendo doesn't deserve any type of suspension? There have been numerous guys get hit while being unconscious. You are told to keep going until the ref stops. Henderson hit him and then went for a quick follow up hit. Not like he can stop as he jumped on him.
1. Rich Franklin hit Nate Quarry one more time after he kncked him out and that KO was WAY MORE BRUTAL than Hendo's KO of Bisping. Quarry's legs and toes went stiff!!
2. Josh Koscheck's KO of Yoshiyuki Yoshida (UFC Fight for the troops on Spike). Yoshida was knocked out cold standing up!! Koscheck still knocked him into next week.
3. BJ Penn rematch against Jens Pulver. BJ kept the rear naked choke on Pulver a good while after he tapped and the ref had to pull BJ off of him.
There are a ton on more examples, just watch UFC Ultimate Knockouts. Guys have been well KO'd but got hit with another shot or 2 UNTIL the ref got them off.
This is a barberic sport, let not forget this. Emotions and all that go into it. You can't just expect a guy to "TURN IT OFF" when a opponent looks done. That is what the ref is there for. Let the ref earn his paycheck.
Last example.....Pete Sell vs. Scott Smith. Sell could have stopped but he didn't and ran into a right hook that Smith delivered.
Hendo doesn't deserve any type of suspension? There have been numerous guys get hit while being unconscious. You are told to keep going until the ref stops. Henderson hit him and then went for a quick follow up hit. Not like he can stop as he jumped on him.
1. Rich Franklin hit Nate Quarry one more time after he kncked him out and that KO was WAY MORE BRUTAL than Hendo's KO of Bisping. Quarry's legs and toes went stiff!!
2. Josh Koscheck's KO of Yoshiyuki Yoshida (UFC Fight for the troops on Spike). Yoshida was knocked out cold standing up!! Koscheck still knocked him into next week.
3. BJ Penn rematch against Jens Pulver. BJ kept the rear naked choke on Pulver a good while after he tapped and the ref had to pull BJ off of him.
There are a ton on more examples, just watch UFC Ultimate Knockouts. Guys have been well KO'd but got hit with another shot or 2 UNTIL the ref got them off.
This is a barberic sport, let not forget this. Emotions and all that go into it. You can't just expect a guy to "TURN IT OFF" when a opponent looks done. That is what the ref is there for. Let the ref earn his paycheck.
Last example.....Pete Sell vs. Scott Smith. Sell could have stopped but he didn't and ran into a right hook that Smith delivered.
AceHBK
Master Black Belt
Henderson stated on MMA Live he could tell he was out but by that time he had already pounced on him and was too late.
I agree that the ref shouldn't be taken by surprise, but I thought the ref did a great job in this fight--he got Henderson off after just one shot beyond the knockout. Henderson was trying to hit again--the ref may have saved a life. On the other hand, the ref failed big time in the Lesner/Mir fight, IMO. Lesner put in at least 3 shots after Mir was clearly down for the count, and as big as Lesner is, I think Mir is lucky not to have been badly hurt.
I think you are missing the point, according to Henderson it wasn't done in the heat of the fight it was done on purpose knowing that the other fighter was already out. As he says 'I did it to shut him up', I'm afraid he's condemned himself with his own words.
I would take issue with you over your description of my sport as 'barbaric', it's not, it's full contact martial arts, you sound like all those people you say it's human cock fighting.
AceHBK
Master Black Belt
Watch ESPN's MMA Live's post fight show where he talked about it. Again to me, the Ref is there to stop it.
Hey I call boxing barbaric. I won't even argue with the term "human cock fighting" as John McCain called it. It is what it is. A lot better than what it was when it 1st started. I enjoy it but it is what it is.
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
I NEVER said I endorsed his behavior or said it was an excuse.
I simply pointed out what I thought was obvious but not being picked up on by many.
The ulimate goal of any business endeavor is to maximize profit (ECO101).
I did state earlier; however, that I personally would prefer mor "GSPs" over more "Lesnars".
Just setting the record straight.
You got a link? I watched the fight and don't remember him saying he meant to do anything "wrong."
No ref should be taken by surprise, but all ref's are human. It's a simple matter of physiology. The eye "sees" and the message is sent to the brain where the brain makes a decision and then sends another message to go into action. All of which takes time, much more time than needed to follow up on an offensive maneuver.
Put simply, the ref can only react within human limits. And, unless you're the Flash...you ain't gonna stop the fight that quickly. So, as I believe they say in your country, "go on...pull the other one."
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
I don't agree with the "cock-fighting" statement. Roosters are forced to fight to the death for the entertainment of a few sick folks...nobody forces these guys to fight.
They also introduced a huge amount of rules and also weight classes to make it more evenly matched and in the interest of the safety of the competitors.
