UFC Behind and Closed Minded?

[Thesemindz]

Thnaks for all the patronising guys.

You know Tez, you can take it personally if you want, but it isn't, so you're just wasting your energy.

I said I don't have anything against female martial artists or female fighters. I trained them. I trained with them. Some are tougher than a lot of guys I trained with.

But as a paying customer, I don't want to watch women fight full contact. It isn't "faux gentlemenly." I don't like it. I'm not saying they can't fight. I'm saying I won't tune in.

And I have the right to feel that way, without some people getting pissy about it and implying that I am in some way mysoginistic for having that opinion. It doesn't make me feel any differently when people take that position.

It lowers them.


-Rob

 

[jarrod]

let's just take it easy all, eh? it sounds to me like some wires got crossed. it happens.

the topic at hand is the UFC specifically.

jf

 

[Ronin74]

I'll just come on out and say it- YES, I found the blanket statement pretty offensive. I'm sorry that I found humor in Omar's statment, but I doubt that automatically makes me chauvanistic or mysogynistic.

Now with regards to the original post... I believe the question was why Dana White hasn't brought women's MMA into the UFC. It's not a question of how big the UFC is, or how capable female fighters are, or how entertaining a women's MMA match is. It's why Dana White has not started bringing in female fighters, when many other MMA promotions have.

I'm going to reiterate my previous statment that, in a past interview, Dana White mentioned that from HIS business perspective- and this could be argued (he's a major league promoter, but he's not the be-all-end-all of MMA)- women's MMA currently doesn't have the same drawing power or staying power. Again, this is his opinion, not mine, not Rob's, not Andy's, or anyone else's. It's not a statement against the skills of female fighters or their ability to put on a good match. It's not to say the UFC won't ever have femle MMA matches on their cards in the future. However, for it to be something the UFC would invest in, does it show the potential to draw in ticket-buyers & PPV buyers, and does it look like something that will be a profitable investment (i.e. will women's MMA be as popular tomorrow and in the years to come as it is today.)

Now beyond any of his interviews, nobody can speak for Dana White as a person. Does he dislike the idea of women's MMA? None of us may know, but I'm going to venture a guess that his appointment as president of the UFC is based on his ability to run the business as a profitable venture, and not let his personal opinions direct his business sense.

As far as UFC's status as "A grand stage", that was my opinion, and it's totally debatable, but here's where I'm basing that opinion from. Zuffa, which is the UFC's parent company, is a privately owned entity. That being the case, they have no obligations to divulge any information regarding their financial status. However, in a report done by the Associated Press, the UFC's gross revenue for 2006 was over $200 million, US (I believe the number was APPROXIMATELY $222,660,000) on PPV events. I think that's a pretty impressive number, but I'll happily retract my opinion if that's the below, or equal to the average gross revenue other MMA promotions make yearly.

Taking that into account, and regarding the OP, if other MMA promotions who clear roughly the same amount or more money, are featuring cards that headlined, or made up exclusively of women's MMA matchs, then the question is if Dana White is paying attention at all.

 

[Tez3]

His business, his rules. Don't like it, raise some capital and book a venue. Does everybody really have to be in lock-step agreement on every issue?

Personally, I enjoy watching females fight as much as the males. I've seen a lot of good technique and there tends to be less wrestling, which I find boring. But it ain't my call if the guy who invested his time and money into the enterprise doesn't want to sponsor it.

You do know I promote fights right? and yes we have women on and yes people enjoy watching them.
People don't have to agree, of course not but then they don't have to make insulting comments about mud wrestling do they?
Just say hey I don't like full contatc fighting or something like that, don't be patronising about it.

 

[Omar B]

I'll just come on out and say it- YES, I found the blanket statement pretty offensive. I'm sorry that I found humor in Omar's statment, but I doubt that automatically makes me chauvanistic or mysogynistic.

I'm glad someone found humor in it. I don't wanna see women get pummeled, is that so wrong?

 

[Thesemindz]

You do know I promote fights right? and yes we have women on and yes people enjoy watching them.
People don't have to agree, of course not but then they don't have to make insulting comments about mud wrestling do they?
Just say hey I don't like full contatc fighting or something like that, don't be patronising about it.

Gee. I thought that was what I said.


-Rob

 

[Marginal]

I personally like female fights very technical IMO. Also Women fights have great stand up action.

Kinda depends on if you think body blows resulting in KO's are exciting. There's usually a massive size disparity in the fights I've seen to compound matters.

 

[MattJ]

I think EliteXC showed that women's MMA can be a serious draw. I think the pool of A-level female MMA fighters may be too shallow yet for the UFC.

 

[CoryKS]

You do know I promote fights right? and yes we have women on and yes people enjoy watching them.
People don't have to agree, of course not but then they don't have to make insulting comments about mud wrestling do they?
Just say hey I don't like full contatc fighting or something like that, don't be patronising about it.

I was responding to the OP, not you.

 

[Nolerama]

The first time I saw a female MMA fight was Rosi Sexton vs Windy Tomomi on a Bodog Fight. I thought it was pretty awesome. Really good boxing, and some clean takedowns. Even with a pretty nasty injury in the second round of the fight, I saw the both of them as great competitors.

Going back to the OP, I think the UFC is already a little bit behind in terms of what seems to be a growing female MMA fighter scene. In terms of close-mindedness, I can see that, too. However, I see the UFC placing their all of their eggs in one basket when it comes to gender.

Think about it. There are plenty of people out there who think that females shouldn't fight in MMA. I think that's wrong, but those people exist. However, both camps are 100% in-tune with male MMA fighters, so why not give the people what they want, and keep the "controversy" outside of the UFC and WEC and leave it up to the other productions? The UFC certainly isn't losing viewership because it doesn't have female fighters... Personally, I think the UFC is probably gaining viewership because of that.

It sucks, but it's about money.

 

[Omar B]

I think EliteXC showed that women's MMA can be a serious draw. I think the pool of A-level female MMA fighters may be too shallow yet for the UFC.

But EliteXC failed. They didn't seriously draw anything. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/josh_gross/10/20/elitexc/

 

[punisher73]

In the US for the most part, people do look at women's fighting like they do when watching WWE's Divas. It's not saying that this view is right, but it is true. It does not help any when fighters like Gina get almost naked in men's magazines talking about how they are a "professional".

Because of this, women's fights in boxing and now MMA are still view as a sideshow. They are not a big draw in the US, they might draw some people to watch out of curiousity, but for many that is it.

Dana White has tried VERY hard to stay away from promoting the UFC in the same class as toughman competitions and that sideshow "No Holds Barred" mentality that permeated the sport early on. He also tries to do what will make him the most money...period. He doesn't have certain weight classes that other promotions do either. Why? Because those fighters don't have the same draw and PPV buys as higher weight classes. Since UFC has the highest profile, it is considered the best out there, that doesn't make it so, but perception is everything.

If women fighters want to be taken seriously, then they need to conduct themselves in a way that promotes their abilities and skills and not get all of their publicity for their lack of clothing and looks.

 

[IcemanSK]

I think why women are a part of the UFC is currently due to a double-edged sword. The quality of female fighters isn't there yet (to a large enough degree to make it worthwhile). But the quality won't go up soon enough if there isn't a way women can make good money doing it. However, since MMA is a new sport, the quality of the women's fighting pool should increase rapidly. I don't think the UFC will hold that position for too many more years. The female fighters are getting better & they will be recognized for more just T & A.

 

[Tez3]

I haven't been able to get onto MT or any other website thanks to either my computer or AOL throwing a wobbly, I log on and get a blank screen with 'done' on it.
This is Lisa Higo a friend of mine she recently competed in America beating three girls in one night,all the womens fights were well received.
http://www.fightergirls.com/fighter.asp?ID=1227
One of her fights

The guy in the black top is her husband John a very well respected kickboxing coach, Lis was full contact KB champion, the guy with them is Karl Tanswell the best corner in the world! He trains Rosi Sexton as well.
Okay it's not the biggest crowd in the world but in Japan womens fights are treated the same as the mens and draw large crowds, womes fights elsewhere will get there.
We don't have huge disparity in size in womens fights, we do have very professional fighters, don't lump them all into the same category. gina Careno may be a good fighter, she's not a professional one having never made weight in six fights and only fighting on her sponsors shows but that is one issue over ONE female,don't judge ALL by that. If you judged the men the same way....?
If people don't want to watch womens MMA or any full contact sport fine but having decided not to watch they should not then disparage and belittle women who do want to take part with childish comments about mud wrestling, I could suggest you repeat those comment over on the TKD forum about watching women in mud and see the response you get.
We all have our preferences but the best thing is not to make fun of or be rude about other peoples choices just because they are different from yours.

 

[MattJ]

But EliteXC failed. They didn't seriously draw anything. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/josh_gross/10/20/elitexc/

Touche, LOL. But their failure was not from lack of ratings about female MMA. Gina was arguably as big a draw as Kimbo was. EliteXC simply did not have the brand recognition in the US that the UFC does - females or no.

And, as Tez noted, female MMA is pretty big elsewhere (like Japan).

 

[Tez3]

Touche, LOL. But their failure was not from lack of ratings about female MMA. Gina was arguably as big a draw as Kimbo was. EliteXC simply did not have the brand recognition in the US that the UFC does - females or no.

And, as Tez noted, female MMA is pretty big elsewhere (like Japan).

Spot on, it wasn't due to female fighters that EliteXC failed. They made a huge catalogue of mistakes, the best thing they did though was feature womens bouts.
Looking at the Fightergirls calender of events in America there seems to be a lot of promotions with female bouts on and there seems to be plenty of female fighters to compete.
http://www.fightergirls.com/news.asp?ID=267
http://www.fightergirls.com/news.asp?ID=269
http://www.fightergirls.com/news.asp?ID=261

http://www.fightergirls.com/pictures.asp


In Japan they have all female competitions, Valkyrie has risen from the ashes of Smackgirl and there are other promotions pushing hard to be the top female show.

 

[punisher73]

Touche, LOL. But their failure was not from lack of ratings about female MMA. Gina was arguably as big a draw as Kimbo was. EliteXC simply did not have the brand recognition in the US that the UFC does - females or no.

And, as Tez noted, female MMA is pretty big elsewhere (like Japan).

Gina Curano was a draw because she has been featured in several men's magazines banking on her looks and on "American Gladiators". To most hardcore fans (take a look over at the "underground forum" at www.mma.tv) she was a professional embarassment because she never could make weight and a host of other issues.

 

[Tez3]

Gina Curano was a draw because she has been featured in several men's magazines banking on her looks and on "American Gladiators". To most hardcore fans (take a look over at the "underground forum" at www.mma.tv) she was a professional embarassment because she never could make weight and a host of other issues.

Spot on there! When she fought Rosi, it was a huge disappointment she didn't make weight and the way her management behaved was a disgrace. Certain people on MT got mad with me because I said she should behave professionally, I was told I was jealous lol! Her subsequent lack of making weight and other issues I think have proved me right. It's such a waste tbh, she's obviously got what it takes to be a fighter, she's just not taken fighting seriously and has damaged female MMA in the process.

Rosi has signed up with Bellator now.

 

[girlbug2]

Dana White is obviously good at his job, as the popularity of UFC in this country will attest. If he's not putting female fighters on, I'd be inclined to believe that it's because of his business acumen, not chauvenism. He'd do whatever it takes to make UFC profitable as has been pointed out repeatedly.

So if America is one of the last countries to accept female fighting, then the fault for that lands squarely on Americans and our attitudes. We do need to seriously take a look at ourselves and ask why such a supposedly advanced culture that promotes freedom and democracy can't bring itself to grant women the same status as men when it comes to sports in general. I mean fergawdsakes, Japan can appreciate female fighting, what's wrong with us?

 

[MattJ]

Gina Curano was a draw because she has been featured in several men's magazines banking on her looks and on "American Gladiators". To most hardcore fans (take a look over at the "underground forum" at www.mma.tv) she was a professional embarassment because she never could make weight and a host of other issues.

I'm afraid you are parsing your argument, sir. The opinion of the MMA hardcore fans was not my point - the overall ratings were.

http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/05/11/gina-carano-makes-maxims-hot-100/

"Her matchups on CBS saw the biggest audience draw of any fighter aside from Kimbo Slice. Since then she was profiled on ESPN's E:60 and had her likeness used in a videogame"

I'm just saying that female fighters can generate ratings.