UFC 193

[elder999]

Elder, you know the Rousey family. How much is this going to mess up Ronda's head? Is she going to come back stronger, or fall apart?

She's likely really depressed-and she'll be out for a while-rumor is a broken jaw, and she's got movie work in the next year, anyway....

How long she'll stay depressed? Hard to say-if she watches that fight more than twice, she could go on a carb and booze binge...she had a few opportunities to win, if she'd been fighting smarter.......I dunno.....If she stays in MMA, she'll make some changes in her coaching, for sure: she had no business boxing a boxer, but that's about what she tried to do. She's loyal, but her mom is right: Edmond Tarvedian is trouble, and in trouble-there's other people in that camp who could do a better job, frankly......

And, oddly enough, she pretty much predicted how the fight would go:

All props to Holly Holm and Greg Jackson, though-this is how you stick to a plan.

 

[Hanzou]

Never get back to your feet like Rhonda does at
4:32
6:26
8:57
She made some beginner's errors when getting off the ground. She should also learn how to kick and sweep. Sweeps would have been perfect to use against Holly evasive movements.

I find it very odd that with all her years in MMA, and her ability to train with the best in the business, that Rousey throws almost no kicks. Was her intention to just use boxing and Judo for her striking/standup?

Holes comes from a boxing background, and she developed some very good kicking ability (thanks to Jackson and Winklejohn), so what's the deal?

 

[elder999]

I find it very odd that with all her years in MMA, and her ability to train with the best in the business, that Rousey throws almost no kicks. Was her intention to just use boxing and Judo for her striking/standup?

You ever seen her throw more than a knee?

'Nuthin; odd about that-it's a skillset she's not comfortable with, or she doesn't feel she needs for MMA....not like it would have made any difference here....

Holes comes from a boxing background, and she developed some very good kicking ability (thanks to Jackson and Winklejohn), so what's the deal?

Winklejohn has been Holly's boxing coach for her entire career....the transition to kickboxer was facilitated by this.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Thanks for finding that video. Holms executed her game plan perfectly. Very impressive.

I'm sure Ronda knows how to get back to her feet correctly, but by that point in the fight she was already somewhat concussed (not to mention frustrated). She hasn't had to deal with taking those kind of shots before in her career. It takes a fair amount of experience to be able to maintain perfect technique after you've eaten a bunch of hard shots to the head.

I got nervous every time I saw her move her head forward when she was getting off the ground. It reminded me of this video

That guy getting hit like that is what made our school add a new drill to our training. How to get up without the face punched or kick. For our system the head always moves away from the attacker when getting up. As for turning around, one should always do it as if an attack is already on it's way to face. This has to almost be reflexive so that it becomes a natural part of turning around.

Holm also shows off a good reverse punch. She actually leads with the reverse punch. She would fire a couple of lead hand jabs to make Rousey pay attention to the lead hand. Once Rousey was focused on the lead hand, Holm would fire a reverse punch first and then follow up with the lead hand. Now if I can only find that post where someone said that the reverse punch was useless

I was surprise to see Rousey with such bad foot work. It was more unstable than I thought it would be, so I went to see what type of foot work training she did. Now I understand why her footwork is bad. None of that footwork training she was doing in the video translates into the footwork that is done when fighting.

This would have been better training for less money.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I find it very odd that with all her years in MMA, and her ability to train with the best in the business, that Rousey throws almost no kicks. Was her intention to just use boxing and Judo for her striking/standup?

Kicking doesn't really fit into what has been Rousey's gameplan so far, which is to bull-rush her opponent in order to get the clinch.

I got nervous every time I saw her move her head forward when she was getting off the ground. It reminded me of this video

That guy getting hit like that is what made our school add a new drill to our training. How to get up without the face punched or kick. For our system the head always moves away from the attacker when getting up. As for turning around, one should always do it as if an attack is already on it's way to face. This has to almost be reflexive so that it becomes a natural part of turning around.

Standing up safely is the second thing I teach new students. (The first being how to fall safely.) As I said, I'm sure Ronda knows the right way to do it, but a lot of things fall apart when you're concussed and frustrated. Especially since standing up while staying safe from punches isn't part of the Olympic Judo core skillset that she grew up practicing.

Holm also shows off a good reverse punch. She actually leads with the reverse punch.

Kind of standard when fighting opposite leads, but she executed it beautifully.

I was surprise to see Rousey with such bad foot work.

A lot of that was Holm making her look bad. Against a lesser opponent it wouldn't have shown up nearly so much. Fighting someone with really good evasive footwork is frustrating. Doing so while getting repeatedly punched hard in the face is extremely frustrating. That sort of thing really exposes any gaps in your training.

The ladder drill in that video is reasonably common for boxers, I believe. It's not so much an example of how to move in a fight as it is an exercise for developing agility and light feet. Kind of like jumping rope.

 

[Hanzou]

Standing up safely is the second thing I teach new students. (The first being how to fall safely.) As I said, I'm sure Ronda knows the right way to do it, but a lot of things fall apart when you're concussed and frustrated. Especially since standing up while staying safe from punches isn't part of the Olympic Judo core skillset that she grew up practicing.

What's that old saying? You get punched in the face as a Black Belt, you instantly become a Brown Belt? You get punched in the face again, and you instantly become a Purple belt?

I think by the end of that fight, Ronda had made it all the way back to White belt.

 

[JowGaWolf]

When I ran track, I did agility exercises that were similar to the movements of running the hurdles. When I played basketball I did agility exercises that were similar to the movements that a basketball player uses. This was the same for tennis, soccer, lacrosse, and kung fu. Agility isn't a general skill set. The agility that a soccer play had is not the same agility that a basketball player. Agility is specific to the movement being used and the muscle group that creates the movement. A person can do those ladder drills all day and never improve the footwork agility in fighting.
With agility you have to train the movement that you are going to use in fighting.
Train the agility for the ladder and you'll only be good at those ladder drills.
Besides being light on your feet isn't always a good thing in fighting. Quick feet are not the same as light feet.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What's that old saying? You get punched in the face as a Black Belt, you instantly become a Brown Belt? You get punched in the face again, and you instantly become a Purple belt?

I think by the end of that fight, Ronda had made it all the way back to White belt.

she did the wrong training for the task. Her loss makes sense when I look at clips from her training. None of he sparring partners were mobile like holm.

 

[kuniggety]

I'm not saying anyone here is doing it but it's easy to judge someone's performance/where they screwed up/how they could've trained better/etc when it wasn't you in the fight. Hindsight is usually 20/20. I'm sure she's pointing out all of the same things to herself. I do the same things... I finish a roll and I think back to the various escapes (as an example) that my opponent did and what I could've done to shut it down. At the time though my mind was obviously somewhere else. All I know is that Ronda is a world class athlete who assuredly would knock me the hell out even if I am a man with more weight/muscle on him.

 

[Tez3]

This is the type of result that makes many 'supporter's of WMMA a bit uneasy. I've had loads of comments this weekend with people thinking it was a bit hard for a female fight. It's where reality clashes with ideals lol. Many support women fighting pro rules seeing it as equality, that women should do what they want but when it comes down to a brutal KO they baulk and start saying 'well, I don't really like seeing women bashed up' even my own instructor says that. I can see their point to a certain extent I suppose, we get people in the gym who are reluctant to spar with women or try to actually hit them, they learn of course. it's an upbringing thing, not all bad of course, men don't hit girls and girls don't hit anyone.
Fights that are mostly Judo/BJJ are usually enjoyed as it appears less brutal, more 'suitable for women', KO's and blood etc are less palatable for some.
I've only seen the clip of the KO, haven't had time to watch the fight so can't comment on it, will get around to watching it though.

 

[punisher73]

Rousey has been one dimensional since she started, but very good at what she did. The UFC has hand fed her opponents to build the hype. This is why many people have been saying that Rousey has been ducking Santos, that she wouldn't be able to handle someone of almost equal size and having good striking power.

I am also against the UFC "instant rematch" approach in cases like this. I understand it sometimes when the fight is very close, but she got owned the entire fight.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm not saying anyone here is doing it but it's easy to judge someone's performance/where they screwed up/how they could've trained better/etc when it wasn't you in the fight. Hindsight is usually 20/20. I'm sure she's pointing out all of the same things to herself. I do the same things... I finish a roll and I think back to the various escapes (as an example) that my opponent did and what I could've done to shut it down. At the time though my mind was obviously somewhere else. All I know is that Ronda is a world class athlete who assuredly would knock me the hell out even if I am a man with more weight/muscle on him.

Somethings in relation to training to fight doesn't require hindsight. In the video that someone posted Rousey said in an interview what she thought her opponent would try to do to win. So that's not hind site and it came from her. I made a statement before the fight even happened. That I would rather fight someone who is angry at me than someone who is focused on beating me. Rousey even stated that her opponent would try to get in her head and kick her in the head. You don't have to be a world class fighter to understand the mechanics and strategies of fighting. There are many boxing coaches and UFC coaches who aren't world class fighters, but they train world class fighters and they do a good job at it. Don't sell yourself short on your ability to analyze a fight or the effectiveness of training methods as they relate to fighting.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This is the type of result that makes many 'supporter's of WMMA a bit uneasy. I've had loads of comments this weekend with people thinking it was a bit hard for a female fight. It's where reality clashes with ideals lol. Many support women fighting pro rules seeing it as equality, that women should do what they want but when it comes down to a brutal KO they baulk and start saying 'well, I don't really like seeing women bashed up' even my own instructor says that. I can see their point to a certain extent I suppose, we get people in the gym who are reluctant to spar with women or try to actually hit them, they learn of course. it's an upbringing thing, not all bad of course, men don't hit girls and girls don't hit anyone.
Fights that are mostly Judo/BJJ are usually enjoyed as it appears less brutal, more 'suitable for women', KO's and blood etc are less palatable for some.
I've only seen the clip of the KO, haven't had time to watch the fight so can't comment on it, will get around to watching it though.

The fight itself didn't seem brutal to me. I've seen worse in terms of women fighting and bashing each other up. There were good shots in the fight. I'll actually use the fight as a training tool for students, because it highlights some of the things that we train in, but the students don't take as serious. For example footwork and stances.

 

[elder999]

She's likely really depressed-and she'll be out for a while-rumor is a broken jaw, and she's got movie work in the next year, anyway....

How long she'll stay depressed? Hard to say-if she watches that fight more than twice, she could go on a carb and booze binge...she had a few opportunities to win, if she'd been fighting smarter.......I dunno.....If she stays in MMA, she'll make some changes in her coaching, for sure: she had no business boxing a boxer, but that's about what she tried to do. She's loyal, but her mom is right: Edmond Tarvedian is trouble, and in trouble-there's other people in that camp who could do a better job, frankly......

And, oddly enough, she pretty much predicted how the fight would go:

All props to Holly Holm and Greg Jackson, though-this is how you stick to a plan.

To be completely fair, with a night to think more about it, Ronda's faced some pretty depressing losses in the past-and gone on to compete at an elite level again. She's got a lot going on, and, even without returning to MMA, she'll be fine.....

 

[Dinkydoo]

Late to rejoining my own thread:

What a victory for Holmes, after the first 30 seonds I said to friends that if Rousey continues to chase after HH in this fashion that it would not end well for her. The bull-rush and takedown tactic did not work and HH's movement and boxing, as you'd expect, was really good.

I'm not sure where Rousey goes from here, her standup is (going on that showing) much further off HH than I thought it was. If she's to reclaim her title from Holmes then her striking and gameplan will need to seriously improve.

 

[Tez3]

The fight itself didn't seem brutal to me. I've seen worse in terms of women fighting and bashing each other up. There were good shots in the fight. I'll actually use the fight as a training tool for students, because it highlights some of the things that we train in, but the students don't take as serious. For example footwork and stances.

It wasn't brutal, I've seen worse too, a friend of mine broke her opponents leg. I've been supporting and promoting women's MMA for many years and this is an attitude I come across a lot, along with the one that women's MMA can't possibly be as good as men's. :-(

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Nice breakdown by Firas Zahabi of how Holm was able to defend against Rousey's clinch:

 

[kuniggety]

Nice breakdown by Firas Zahabi of how Holm was able to defend against Rousey's clinch:

"You're going to see a boxer throw a judoka here." For some reason that line cracked me up. It was an awesome breakdown of the fight. Strikers take note.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Part of why it's hard to stay the champion in any fight sport for too long is that once you are the champion you have the collective intelligence of coaches and fighters all over the world working to figure out the weaknesses in your game. Rousey has been working to broaden her skillset, but fundamentally she's been working the same approach for her entire fight career and it was inevitable that someone would eventually figure out how to counter it.

 

[Tez3]

Ronda Rousey’s Head Coach Edmond Tarverdyan Finally Speaks, & Gives A Shocking Take On The Fight

What are people's thoughts on this?