Twist Kick

[8253]

Hey, does anybody here us twist kick in sparring?

I use it alot and it scores a nice amount of point, especially when followed up by a roundkick or side kick.

For those who don't know the kick, it's an inverted round kick, inside to out snap lateral kick...requires good flexibility, especially to kick to the head...

Why would you use something that earns you points in a tournament, but earns you a severe thumping on the streets. Dosent make to much sense to me. Just my opinion though. No offense meant.

 

[ShaolinWolf]

I just use it to make myself more flexible. You don't know me. I'm like super-flexible. Not bragging. No I wouldn't use it on the streets, same as I wouldn't kick to the head unless the opportunity came. I just like to use it, as with all other kicks, to further my flexibility to the head. I'm in TaeKwonDo, that should explain it. LOL. Anyways, Not too many people use it in my school, unless they are Black Belt, and so I happen to like it. Most people don't like it because you have to combine speed, power and flexibility alot into the kick. and it sometimes hurts for some people in their hip and groin area.

TKD is about Flashy Kicks. Alot of Flashy Kicks, but don't think that's all it is. It's just we use alot of kicks. Remember 70% of TKD is kicking and most of the is head level or above. So we gotta do alot more than round, side, and hook. I mean we got hook, round, crescent, heel, side, back, twist, front, and that's not to mention all the reverses, the step reverses, the spins and step spins, and jump reverses, and jump step reverses, and the jump spins and the jump step spins, and the jumping, and the sliding up and sliding back and stepping.

LOL. No offense taken. Its just I like using Twist kick because I'm flexible. I do it to the head and higher. It really opens up your hips.


And also, It's the GrandMaster we are talking about here when breaking. Break with the instep seems impossible to you or me, but obviously he can to it. I break with the ball, but he can break with the instep. Which is almost unbelievable.

:asian:

 

[Damian Mavis]

What are you guys talking about? Twisting kick is a great kick for the street. It has power, speed and comes from a sneaky angle... if your kick isn't like that then don't blame the kick... you simply suck.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Zepp]

Why would you use something that earns you points in a tournament, but earns you a severe thumping on the streets. Dosent make to much sense to me. Just my opinion though. No offense meant.

Duh! Because we're Martial Artists. Self-defense is an important aspect of TKD, but it's not the only reason we train in it. If we limit ourselves to only the simplest of techniques, our abilities would quickly reach a plateau and wouldn't become any better.

By the way, if you're going to question the techniques and training methods of an art you don't practice, you should try to do it in a way that doesn't make you sound like a troll.

 

[ShaolinWolf]

I agree Zepp...And Twist kick is not a smart kick for the street. You could easily do a round kick or side kick without expending too much power. Twist Kick is great for groin kicks, but you'd deliver more power with round or side. Also, I'm talking High Twist kick, Which I use. Head level twist kick.


And yes, don't knock another martial Art...I just was in another topic and somebody said something about a wimpy martial artist. That they need to buck up and this isn't TKD. I was appalled...lol. I mean, TKD is great for self defense and all, but there is so much more to extend your abilities and reach new heights, so why wouldn't we want to do anything, even if it's not the best technique. A master of all techniques is a true master. Otherwise, why even try.

 

[Zepp]

...And Twist kick is not a smart kick for the street.

Well, actually...I think I'd have to defer to Damian's experience here and say that with practice it could become street-savy.

 

[8253]

Duh! Because we're Martial Artists. Self-defense is an important aspect of TKD, but it's not the only reason we train in it. If we limit ourselves to only the simplest of techniques, our abilities would quickly reach a plateau and wouldn't become any better.

By the way, if you're going to question the techniques and training methods of an art you don't practice, you should try to do it in a way that doesn't make you sound like a troll.

But i have studied TKD. Didnt care much for it. Didnt look like self defense to me. I am a troll.

You should never assume that someone has never studied something. It always comes back to bite you. %-}

 

[Damian Mavis]

"You should never assume that someone has never studied something. It always comes back to bite you"

Ya you put him in his place! haha What did you do, study TKD for a few months? heh. I've been training for 13 years and I feel that just maybe I can form objective opinions on the art.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Zepp]

But i have studied TKD. Didnt care much for it. Didnt look like self defense to me. I am a troll.

You should never assume that someone has never studied something. It always comes back to bite you. %-}

Gee, well I guess you've shown me. So I suppose know you know beyond all doubt that your negative experience with a single school is indicative of all TKD styles and schools? Your vast and diverse experience must make you quite the authority on self-defense.

 

[ShaolinWolf]

Ummm, from my personal experiences, ATA TKD is one of the most popular Martial Arts in the US at the moment. I mean ATA has over 1600 schools in just the United States alone. And we don't JUST do TKD. We do Jujitsu/Judo/Grappling, Aikido, Hapkido, and Occasional Kickboxing. And TKD BBs are not just kicking happy BBs. LOL. That's what everybody thinks. I have done very extreme self-defenses in TKD alone, and they would bust somebody up REAL good. Also, there are alot of Crappy TKD schools out there that just teach TKD and not Self-defense. But TKD is essentially Self-defense, as is most MA. I mean, we do joint locks/munipulation, close combat, and all other types of SD.

I don't like to knock other martial arts. There is no point. Sure everybody says TKD sucks, but that's because they have only seen stuff like what the Korean Tigers do and such. And the demos.

And I agree that Twist Kick can be used to great advantage in the street. It's just I was saying why do that, when you know you can deliver equal, if not more, power with a round kick or side kick. Only in wierd measures would I use a twist kick, maybe for a painful distraction. But I don't like the idea of someone grabbing my leg while in the middle of a twist kick. That could hurt horribly. At least if the idiot grabs my leg in a side or round kick, I could still bust him up without too much limitation. I personally wouldn't use it, even with my good flexibility, but if it works for someone, then great.

 

[moving target]

Also, there are alot of Crappy TKD schools out there that just teach TKD and not Self-defense.

What do you mean by this? Aren't the techniques the same? Sorry but I must mis understand that statement, it seems to me that you are saying straight TKD sucks (TKD without self deffence). Could you clarify please? (obviously I don't practice TKD )

 

[Marginal]

I could see a case being made against 100% sport oriented TKD. Restricted use of the hands, developing the habit of fighting with your arms at your sides, high kicking, pinning/jumping techniques etc aren't especially smart in a self-defense situation.

(Note: This says nothing about any particular style or organization, just schools that focus on sport to the exclusiuon of all else.)

 

[ShaolinWolf]

I could see a case being made against 100% sport oriented TKD. Restricted use of the hands, developing the habit of fighting with your arms at your sides, high kicking, pinning/jumping techniques etc aren't especially smart in a self-defense situation.

(Note: This says nothing about any particular style or organization, just schools that focus on sport to the exclusiuon of all else.)

My point exactly, Marginal. I'm not against TKD, I mean I take it. Its just that a bunch of TKD schools out there have given a bad name to TKD in general. I mean, it's the most widely known MA, and I know plenty of schools that just use it as a MA sport, rather than teaching Self-Defense. I mean, there are a lot of instructors out there that have set up schools and then gone bankrupt and run with people's money. And also, since TKD is a widely known "sport", there have been plenty of things that have made it only a sport.
I'm just saying that a large majority of the schools that are not affiliated with an Organization, Assocation, or Federation. I'm not discriminating against schools that are not affiliated, its just a large majority of the ones I've been around or heard of from friends. Those schools only teach TKD and OK self-defense, but you can't just have one form of martial art taught to you and not know grappling or advanced Self-defense. Otherwise, it's just a sport. You can't just master an art of standing without knowing how to fight when on the ground. A large majority of fights end up on the ground.

TKD itself originated from art of Hwarang do. Then the Japanese messed it up. But, the Hwarang army did happened to do alot more than just Kicking. (I'm not saying that Hwarang do is messed up at all, I'm just saying that TKD was messed up during the World Wars.)

I just don't think that TKD by itself is a good MA. I was kind of suspicious about ATA when I first started because I had been to TKD schools since I was like 4 yrs old and most of them were crap. They couldn't really teach much self-defense and they just stank. Everything was so ununiform. All messed up. If ATA was just TKD and that was all, no joint locks, no grappling, Tai chi chuan, or any of the other stuff we teach, I'd be taking MA from the Kung Fu school a few towns over. Yes, it's american TKD, but the guy who founded ATA was born in Manchuria and was a Korean(died on Oct. 5, 2000). He and his cousins/brothers/sons/other relatives were trained in the traditional TKD and he made up his own style, incorporating the techniques that TKD lacks. WTF, ATA, and the other federations are great, I just don't like being under a private school. Not unless it's a good one that has a good rep.

 

[Marginal]

That's one of the problems with TKD too. All that iffy "history". The bulk of TKD was derived from Shotokan Karate, and it took shape in the 40's and 50's. Not thousands of years ago...

 

[ShaolinWolf]

Yes, but the TKD that you know now is from the 40s and 50s, not what was actually taking place thousands of years ago. Shotokan karate did happen to change TKD, but some of the old principles have been brought back. Hwarang Do is one of the surviving arts that TKD can get its styles from. The only problem is that TKD schools privately owned happen to use karate as its base and then mix it with TKD.


The only reason Shotokan Karate has any affect, well, almost all, on alot of TKD is because the Japanese were so scared of the Korean Army, the Hwarang, that they wanted to extinguish the Korean's strength. Thus banning MA, they got rid of the all powerful TKD of years past. Now, we live in an age of the weaker part of TKD. This weaker part can only be strengthened through hard training and applying the concepts of many other arts to give more power to the art itself. That's why almost all TKD schools have to borrow MA material from other styles to really count in Self Defense and Weapons. I mean, the Traditional TKD of now is nothing to do with weapons. The Weapons and Self Defenses are taken from toher styles to strengthen the weaker MA of TKD.

Its so sad reading that the once unbeatable Country of Korea, was reduced in power by ALOT. I mean, the Hwarang army defeated the Japanese and the Chinese because of its power, strength, and conditioning. THey were completely unbeatable. And to think that they had a weak point which the Japanese took at the seams and ripped the rest of the power out of the art. Now all we have is the Traditional form of TKD, unless the other styles are borrowed from.

 

[moving target]

How did the japanese so effectively repress the practice of Hwarang Do? That seems like it would have been a neerly imposable task. I mean through out the world many cultures have attempted to repress other cultures practices and most all (if not all) successes were only after a great deal of time had passed.

 

[Marginal]

I've only read a little on ancient Korean history, but... As I understand it,

The Sillia kingdom got aid from China to fend off attacks from the Koryo kindgom. The Chinese started setting up shop in the Silia kingdom, but, the Silia kingdom couldn't do much about it at the time because they still needed Chinese millitary support to maintain their borders. The kingdoms were eventually united, and a warrior class arose, but its existence was fleeting, and the Korean government of the time eventually restricted the practice of MA. The Hwarang died out along with their art. Taekyon was the only element beleived to have survived from that era.

Regardless, the fact that Silia was looking to China for millitary aid, and almost were conquered by their "allies" kinda hints that the Koreans weren't any more invincible that anyone else at the time.

Most people have a real hard time seperating Hwarang-do from Hapkido. Hapkido draws heavily from Japanese Ju Jitsu, not from ancient Korean sources.

 

[ShaolinWolf]

I've only read a little on ancient Korean history, but... As I understand it,

The Sillia kingdom got aid from China to fend off attacks from the Koryo kindgom. The Chinese started setting up shop in the Silia kingdom, but, the Silia kingdom couldn't do much about it at the time because they still needed Chinese millitary support to maintain their borders. The kingdoms were eventually united, and a warrior class arose, but its existence was fleeting, and the Korean government of the time eventually restricted the practice of MA. The Hwarang died out along with their art. Taekyon was the only element beleived to have survived from that era.

Regardless, the fact that Silia was looking to China for millitary aid, and almost were conquered by their "allies" kinda hints that the Koreans weren't any more invincible that anyone else at the time.

Most people have a real hard time seperating Hwarang-do from Hapkido. Hapkido draws heavily from Japanese Ju Jitsu, not from ancient Korean sources.

Couldn't have put it better myself, Marginal. Summed up, the japanese banned the koreans from practicing MA and they basically destroyed some of the best aspects of their culture.

The Hwarang army may have been thought to be invincible, but it was only in the fact that they were just plain good. No one is invincible, even Miyamoto Musashi, though he's dead, but he died of good old age.

 

[8253]

Gee, well I guess you've shown me. So I suppose know you know beyond all doubt that your negative experience with a single school is indicative of all TKD styles and schools? Your vast and diverse experience must make you quite the authority on self-defense.

Number one: if you look at the original posting you will see that i wasnt questioning TKD i was questioning the use of a single move and training just for tournaments.
Number two: If you think that smart a$% remarks get anywhere with me your wrong. I will be just as calm as i was before. I dont stir very easy.
Number three: :2xbird: just for attempting to be a smart a$#.

 

[Marginal]

Couldn't have put it better myself, Marginal. Summed up, the japanese banned the koreans from practicing MA and they basically destroyed some of the best aspects of their culture.

Well, my point was that Korea's martial arts fell into obscurity hundreds of years before the Japanese got into the mix.