Turtling--Best Way to Recover?

[HundredthMike]

Hi All,
I'm new to the forum and to MA's. For those of you who spar, I'm wondering if you have suggestions about practical things to do to recover from flinching, turning away from a sparring partner, etc.

I know I'll get better about this with time, but I'd like to have some practical ideas about how to recover from turtling. I tend to turn away from my sparring partner if they throw several shots. Should I try coming back with hooks to the body maybe to drive them back? I'm already low given my body position, so this seems reasonable, but I'm hoping to hear suggestions about good means of finding my way out of this position that don't require my partner to simply let up.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Well, rather than try to recover from flinching and turning away, you should look for ways to prevent yourself from flinching and turning away. Once your in that situation it's tough to respond, although something that I've done if I have the space is jump back and throw a front or side kick (or some other strike if you don't like those). Generally if they're not expecting it, and inexperienced enough to chase, they'll walk right into it. If they're not inexperienced, they'll let up a bit which gives you a few seconds to reset yourself.

As for ways to prevent it from happening, it's a reflex that probably will take a bit to go away. Ask your instructor to work on it, and if possible have people slowly build up speed/intensity with their attacks so you can acclimate to it and not get overwhelmed/flinch or turtle when they go all out.

If your turtling is a strategy to deal damage at a boxing gym, the hook might be a good idea, but if you're not boxing or not turtling up for a reason, throwing a hook isn't really gonna give you any extra recovery time.

 

[HundredthMike]

Thank you for your insights. It's not so much a strategy as a reflex I need to overcome, so I'll work on moving back and throwing a kick or another technique to recover.

 

[drop bear]

Because you are still at tje stage where you are turning your back. You need to move forwards and clinch.

When you get better then you can try othet things

 

[FriedRice]

I'm new to the forum and to MA's. For those of you who spar, I'm wondering if you have suggestions about practical things to do to recover from flinching, turning away from a sparring partner, etc. .

Keep a high guard and try to not turn away while blocking and moving with hands glued to the face. Work on mimicking Tyson's "Peek-a-Boo" style, upper body movements but with a higher guard. Palms out would actually be better in training to catch punches. You should never turn away unless you're going to run away, say in the street. You're doing light sparring right?

 

[Danny T]

Hi All,
I'm new to the forum and to MA's. For those of you who spar, I'm wondering if you have suggestions about practical things to do to recover from flinching, turning away from a sparring partner, etc.

I know I'll get better about this with time, but I'd like to have some practical ideas about how to recover from turtling. I tend to turn away from my sparring partner if they throw several shots. Should I try coming back with hooks to the body maybe to drive them back? I'm already low given my body position, so this seems reasonable, but I'm hoping to hear suggestions about good means of finding my way out of this position that don't require my partner to simply let up.

Turning away is almost always due to not accepting you are being hit and that you don't know what to do to prevent it. It happens with a lot of people and simply takes time getting hit and learning to accept the hit. Once that happens your mind will slow down and you will be able to deal with defending the attacks. Many work on defenses and feel great until getting hit or overwhelmed by numerous punches in combination. Something I do with beginners is to make them stand with their hands behind their back and lightly punch them in the face with gloves. They must work to keep their eyes open. After 10-12 light punches then they can use their arms and hands to guard against harder punches and then back to taking the punches unprotected and repeat with covering. This is done with an experienced controlled puncher never a beginner to beginner and for 5-6 reps. The beginner gets to return the punching to the experienced puncher for 5-6 reps as well. We also will do 3 minute rounds of an experienced puncher with excellent control just punching the beginner who can only defend. If the beginner is overwhelmed the puncher slows down or stops until the beginner is able to compose themselves and we go again. It is a process beginning slow and light while building on speed & power as the beginners ability and composure grows.
Doesn't mean you will like getting hit or like taking the hit but you will learn rather quickly to accept the hit and continue your attacks.

 

[HundredthMike]

FriedRice--it's not full-on sparring, but partners throw fast enough that the techniques feel like real threats. I'll work on covering up more and keeping my hands at the face. We practice parrying quite a lot rather than blocking or covering, but I think getting a hang out what you're suggesting is a good idea too.

Danny T--This sounds like an excellent way to train beginners and get them to accept taking hits. We do a "wall drill" frequently, where one partner only defends and can't move out of range, and the other throws punches. I think I may simply be impatient to arrive at a place where my fear of injury isn't such a factor.

 

[drop bear]

FriedRice--it's not full-on sparring, but partners throw fast enough that the techniques feel like real threats. I'll work on covering up more and keeping my hands at the face. We practice parrying quite a lot rather than blocking or covering, but I think getting a hang out what you're suggesting is a good idea too.

Danny T--This sounds like an excellent way to train beginners and get them to accept taking hits. We do a "wall drill" frequently, where one partner only defends and can't move out of range, and the other throws punches. I think I may simply be impatient to arrive at a place where my fear of injury isn't such a factor.

Parrying works but you have to be in control of the exchange. So I would use that technique a bit sparingly.

 

[crazydiamond]

[QUOTE="Danny T, post: 1743159, member: 986" Something I do with beginners is to make them stand with their hands behind their back and lightly punch them in the face with gloves. They must work to keep their eyes open. After 10-12 light punches then they can use their arms and hands to guard against harder punches and then back to taking the punches unprotected and repeat with covering. This is done with an experienced controlled puncher never a beginner to beginner and for 5-6 reps. The beginner gets to return the punching to the experienced puncher for 5-6 reps as well. We also will do 3 minute rounds of an experienced puncher with excellent control just punching the beginner who can only defend. If the beginner is overwhelmed the puncher slows down or stops until the beginner is able to compose themselves and we go again. It is a process beginning slow and light while building on speed & power as the beginners ability and composure grows.
Doesn't mean you will like getting hit or like taking the hit but you will learn rather quickly to accept the hit and continue your attacks.[/QUOTE]

My instructor has done some similar drills with us. Also we have done three on one - no moving and that is not painful but very very uncomfortable physically and emotionally. It just takes time. I am still working on dealing with taking light hits. I think its important to either self defense or competition to get over this.

Also nothing wrong with stepping back fast and creating distance when your worried about getting hit - thats a defense too. As a beginner I tend to stand and take it - or advance too much and not do the dance.

 

[Danny T]

We practice parrying quite a lot rather than blocking or covering, but I think getting a hang out what you're suggesting is a good idea too.

When you say parrying, could you give an example of what you are doing? How much movement are you doing? How far from your face/body are you parrying? How high or low are you parrying?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Turning away is almost always due to not accepting you are being hit and that you don't know what to do to prevent it. It happens with a lot of people and simply takes time getting hit and learning to accept the hit. Once that happens your mind will slow down and you will be able to deal with defending the attacks. Many work on defenses and feel great until getting hit or overwhelmed by numerous punches in combination. Something I do with beginners is to make them stand with their hands behind their back and lightly punch them in the face with gloves. They must work to keep their eyes open. After 10-12 light punches then they can use their arms and hands to guard against harder punches and then back to taking the punches unprotected and repeat with covering. This is done with an experienced controlled puncher never a beginner to beginner and for 5-6 reps. The beginner gets to return the punching to the experienced puncher for 5-6 reps as well. We also will do 3 minute rounds of an experienced puncher with excellent control just punching the beginner who can only defend. If the beginner is overwhelmed the puncher slows down or stops until the beginner is able to compose themselves and we go again. It is a process beginning slow and light while building on speed & power as the beginners ability and composure grows.
Doesn't mean you will like getting hit or like taking the hit but you will learn rather quickly to accept the hit and continue your attacks.

Danny, this sounds like a great exercise. Any chance you've ever video'd the process?

 

[Danny T]

Danny, this sounds like a great exercise. Any chance you've ever video'd the process?

LOL, I'm a bit behind in the technology department when it comes to video and such. My video camera only connects to a monitor I have at the school for playback for students to view themselves and I have no idea how to get video from there to here.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

LOL, I'm a bit behind in the technology department when it comes to video and such. My video camera only connects to a monitor I have at the school for playback for students to view themselves and I have no idea how to get video from there to here.

Well, this being "Martial Talk" and not "Tech Talk", I'll let that slide, Danny.

 

[FriedRice]

Danny, this sounds like a great exercise. Any chance you've ever video'd the process?

this is him right here:

 

[Danny T]

this is him right here:

Great video of how Not to do what I wrote about.

No we don't do it that way... Absolutely NOT!
I posted in bold bold print and underlined "lightly". I do not condone or use this tactic at the level shown in the video. Sparring at that level yes. But to stand there taking those type of punches as in this video; NO.

 

[FriedRice]

Great video of how Not to do what I wrote about.

No we don't do it that way... Absolutely NOT!
I posted in bold bold print and underlined "lightly". I do not condone or use this tactic at the level shown in the video. Sparring at that level yes. But to stand there taking those type of punches as in this video; NO.

Good Lord, that was just a joke.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Great video of how Not to do what I wrote about.

No we don't do it that way... Absolutely NOT!
I posted in bold bold print and underlined "lightly". I do not condone or use this tactic at the level shown in the video. Sparring at that level yes. But to stand there taking those type of punches as in this video; NO.

Did someone delete a post, or am I just not seeing it. I don't see the video you refer to.

 

[Buka]

Welcome to MT, HundrethMike (if you're still around).

We do something similar to what Danny posted. I'd have you with your hands behind your back and slowly throw combos at you. You are only allowed to slip the punches, duck and use footwork - all the while staring intently at your partners chest. If you look away for a second, or duck with your face down, you do pushups and jump up again. You would get tired of dropping to the floor and getting up quickly, it's the interruption that's a pain in the butt, not the pushups.

After a week or so, the speed of the punches would increase slightly. Not so much as to thwart your evasion, but just enough so you feel comfortable evading quicker. The pace picks up in small increments over the course of days and weeks, again, not to defeat you, just to make you work at a quicker clip. A third person (or more) should be there to watch that your eyes never leave your opponent.

After another month, slow kicks are added.

After another month, you can put your hands in guard instead of behind the back. You can now slap block (not hard, stopping blocks) as well as evade.

It works pretty good. And a few months is noting in the grand scheme of things. You just need the right partners.

Another thing we do is have someone gloved up and standing behind you when you spar. Every time you turn away from your sparring partner - the guy behind you blasts the living daylights out of you. You suddenly become more worried about him than the fighter in front of you. This works like a charm, too, but is less user friendly.

As for fried Rice's video, I took it as a joke. Made me chuckle and scratch my head. I know that if an instructor tried that around here - there would soon be a missing persons report issued.

 

[FriedRice]

Another thing we do is have someone gloved up and standing behind you when you spar. Every time you turn away from your sparring partner - the guy behind you blasts the living daylights out of you. You suddenly become more worried about him than the fighter in front of you. This works like a charm, too, but is less user friendly.

whoa, that's pretty good, i'm stealing this.

 

[Buka]

whoa, that's pretty good, i'm stealing this.

It works really well with the right person.

Years ago (many) we were training a nice young kid who was way too big for his age. (14, six foot three, 200 lbs) But he was a gentle giant and really introverted. He wanted to fight in point tournaments, so we trained him for it. When he got into trouble (we didn't train points like it's done today) he would go down. You know, throw a kick in the middle of a wild exchange, pretend to lose balance and go down. He'd cover properly on the ground but he was going down to stop the action. We couldn't seem to break him of the habit. So I spoke with his dad and formed a plan.

All the guys got together - from then on every time he went down, everybody around (usually ten to 20 guys) would just put the boots to him. And we told him it was going to happen every single time he hit the floor. It scared the bejesus out of him. But after two days, just two, you couldn't get that kid down without a bulldozer.

He's in his late forties now, teaches MMA and some other stuff, and you better have great take downs if you want him on the floor. He's a pretty good grappler, too.

You can't do that with everyone, but you can with some.