TSD vs. TKD

[karatekid1975]

Sure, but it may be a pretty long post.

Material/Emphasis-There are differences in stances between the 2 arts with generally TSD stances being longer-there is a post somewhere in this area on this exact subject so I won't go any further.

TSD also utilizes more hand techniques than TKD. In sparring and hoshinsul, TKDin use different footwork in order to deliver attacks/counter-attacks. Indeed, because TKD uses continuous full contact sparring (whereas TSD does point), the counter-attack is stressed more in training.

TKD and TSD have different "set ups"-crossing the arms for closed-fist blocks and how "knifehand blocks" are set up-arms extended shoulder-level in TKD, whereas TSDin have their hands at belt-level.

TKD uses more snapping motion kicks whereas TSD uses more "thrusting" kicks.

Curriculum-in most TKD schools, sparring is introduced progressively: promise sparring (ie. no contact), then light-contact, and finally full contact. Since TSD sparring is point, it is light-contact with no progression.TSD allows head strikes in sparring, TKD does not.

Forms-there is an emphasis in TSD schools on forms which is not present in TKD. The forms are different-TSD uses the older pyung-ahn series, bassai, etc. whereas in TKD (Kukkiwon) forms are shorter, more symmetrical. I have also seen different TSD schools use the same forms at different rank levels. TKD has a standard-one form per rank with nearly universal applicability (i.e. Taeguek 8 for cho-dan)

Terminology-TSD uses the original terminology for its techniques-for example "ha dan/chung dan/sang dan makki" versus "arae/momtong/eugol makki" for TKD.

Please do not misconstrue my point. I am not saying one is better than the other-they are just different. Hope this helps!

Miles

The way you explained TSD is exactly the way my old TSD dojang was. I just couldn't explain it as well as you did The way you explained TKD is the way my current dojang is, except for the Chin Na (not part of TKD). Thanks Miles

 

[FearlessFreep]

Our self-defense is arm length...

What do you use for self-defense? Our instructor teaches self-defense; it uses a lot of TKD moves (blocks and hand strikes as well as kicks) but is supplemented with some join manipulation and other stuff borrowed from hapkido and elsewhere.

I think we tend to blur the line between 'tkd' and 'self-defense' in that self-defense is just learning to use tkd techniques in certain situations and augmenting the techniques from other sources. We do include kicks as well but focus more on close in techniques as they tend to be easier to keep at the proper level of the threat.

Anyway, I was just curious how you apply self-defense within TKD and from where it derives, etc...

 

[Miles]

The way you explained TSD is exactly the way my old TSD dojang was. I just couldn't explain it as well as you did The way you explained TKD is the way my current dojang is, except for the Chin Na (not part of TKD). Thanks Miles

You are welcome Laurie. BTW, your school's chin na is likely what we call hoshinsul in my class (or hapkido in someone else's TKD class). I love Dr. Yang's Analysis of Shaolin Chin Na-it is one of my favorite MA books!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Miles

 

[karatekid1975]

You are welcome Laurie. BTW, your school's chin na is likely what we call hoshinsul in my class (or hapkido in someone else's TKD class). I love Dr. Yang's Analysis of Shaolin Chin Na-it is one of my favorite MA books!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Miles

We have that one as well. We get more help on what we learn in class from the book. Good stuff

 

[Makalakumu]

You are welcome Laurie. BTW, your school's chin na is likely what we call hoshinsul in my class (or hapkido in someone else's TKD class). I love Dr. Yang's Analysis of Shaolin Chin Na-it is one of my favorite MA books!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Miles

Mile, do you happen to train in Tae Kwon Do Moo Do Kwan? The similarities between TSD MDK and TKD MDK are more numerous.

 

[Miles]

Miles, do you happen to train in Tae Kwon Do Moo Do Kwan? The similarities between TSD MDK and TKD MDK are more numerous.

No, I though I have trained with a TKD master with MDK roots.

I practice, train, and teach Kukki-Taekwondo.

What are some of the similarities you mentioned?

Miles

 

[Makalakumu]

Off of the top of my head, MDK schools typically call self defense hosinshul instead of Hapkido, they have similar kicking regimines, they have similar forms, and their terminology is closer.

Also, MDK schools tend to be less sport orientated and more traditional. They focus more on the development of basics and things seem more formalized.

Just my observations...

upnorthkyosa

 

[Miles]

Off of the top of my head, MDK schools typically call self defense hosinshul instead of Hapkido, they have similar kicking regimines, they have similar forms, and their terminology is closer.

Also, MDK schools tend to be less sport orientated and more traditional. They focus more on the development of basics and things seem more formalized.

Just my observations...

upnorthkyosa

Thanks for your observations. Much depends on the instructor (whether we are talking emphasis on sport/tradition/formality of classes/adherence to protocol, etc). I think that applies pretty much to whether one is Taekwondoin or Tang Soo Doin.

Miles

 

[MichiganTKD]

It's going to be very interesting to see what happens to the Tae Kwon Do curriculum if (and probably when) TKD is removed from the Olympics. Remember, the curriculum for the past 30-odd years has been geared toward Olympic-style and away from traditional style, so that TKD would be seen as less lethal and more sportlike.
If TKD is removed from the Olympics, what is the sense of having a point-based routine? Other than the WTF World Championships, which noone outside the TKD world would know or care about, why train in Olympic style if TKD loses its Olympic status? Personally, I would favor a return to the traditional curriculum, and have sparring remain as a segment of the Art, but not the emphasis.

 

[TigerWoman]

Our self-defense is arm length...

What do you use for self-defense?

The rest of that quote was ..".for the first four ranks"...which is white, yellow and orange, green. We use ridge hand, head butt, palm strike, sidekick to knees, knee to groin, round for thigh charleyhorse among the techniques which are included in combinations for those ranks. We also use joint locks, grappling etc for the upper ranks and also other technique which we are not tested on. TW

 

[bignick]

We also use the ha dan makki, etc for our terminology. This is the first I've ever heard it used in taekwondo outside my school. Most of the other schools I've seen use the other terminology that has been mentioned. Does anyone know why they made the switch?

 

[TigerWoman]

I don't think you can categorize all WTF schools the same. We are WTF. Once we were more sport-oriented with it centered on sparring and forms ie. training for State and Nationals. All the time though we still had forms, self-defense, one-steps, free-sparring, tradition and etiquette. Now we are more traditional but do point sparring only at tournaments.

Our forms only have walking stances up to Taeguek 3. Most of the stances are long and deep. How deep? As long and deep and you can go in any other art. We physically train for it. TW

 

[Miles]

We also use the ha dan makki, etc for our terminology. This is the first I've ever heard it used in taekwondo outside my school. Most of the other schools I've seen use the other terminology that has been mentioned. Does anyone know why they made the switch?

The Kukkiwon has been trying to standardize terminology since approximately 1995. I learned the older terminology in an ITF-style program from the mid-70s. These terms are still used by the TSD school in which I teach.

Miles