TSD vs. TKD

[shane23ss]

How close is TSD to TKD? I have a very close friend who holds a Shodan in TSD and he doesn't really know, he has never trained in nor knows any TKD stylist. Am I comparing apples to oranges here?

 

[jfarnsworth]

How close is TSD to TKD? I have a very close friend who holds a Shodan in TSD and he doesn't really know, he has never trained in nor knows any TKD stylist. Am I comparing apples to oranges here?

Tough question. I don't know the answer. There are no TSD school's anywhere in my area. Only someone with background in both could tell us for sure. I think KarateKid1975 has done both for quite a while. Maybe if she is on then can enlighten us.

 

[Disco]

Found this on another site.

What's the difference between TSD and TKD?
Not much.
There are more differences from school to school than between the two styles. For example I have visited many TSD and TKD schools and I have found that in some cases my TSD school trained more similiar to a TKD school than by another TSD school. In general TKD has different forms than TSD-but I have been surprised to see my forms(although performed a little differently) at TKD and shoto kan schools. Also perhaps TKD tends to be a little more open to new ideas and flashy uniforms compared to TSD...

 

[Galvatron]

It really depends on how the particular school trains their students. Sometimes the difference can be night and day, sometimes it can be so similar that you'd never know which style you were seeing, without seeing the sign on the door.

 

[shane23ss]

It really depends on how the particular school trains their students. Sometimes the difference can be night and day, sometimes it can be so similar that you'd never know which style you were seeing, without seeing the sign on the door.

I see that you hold rankings in TSD and TKD. Is there a particular reason for that, or just happened that way? Reason I ask is that the friend I was speaking of trained in Maryland and is now in TN. He nor I have seen any TSD schools in our area and he was wondering how easy the transition would be if he started training at a TKD Dojang. He and I spar from time to time and he is blown away at how different Kenpo is from his system. He would like to continue with his progression in the Korean system if possible. I was wondering for my own info would the TKD Dojang require him to wear a white belt to class or would they honor his BB? That probably varies from school to school, right? I once visited a TKD school a few years ago and they told me they would honor my Kenpo green belt and not make start at white. Didn't impress me none, so I left. My thoughts were "why would I wear a green belt in a TKD school"? I could see that if someone was going to a different Kenpo school, I could even see it if someone was going to a different Kenpo system, but not from Kenpo to TKD. Just to different. Thank you guys for your comments. Always appreciated.:asian:

 

[Galvatron]

I started training in Tang Soo back in '87, when my dad opened a dojang. About two years ago I started training in WTF-Taekwondo with an old friend of my dad's, who has a TKD Dojang in my town. He honored my 3rd dan, and allows me to wear that rank in his school. Unfortunately the WTF would not allow my rank to transfer over, so when I applied for a Kukkiwon certificate of Dan, I had to apply for 1st Dan.
I would have to say that a TKD school would "probably" honor his black belt. If the school is WTF/USTU and is big on Kukkiwon registration for Dan ranks, then he might have to bump down to 1st Dan, but most will generally let you wear the rank you have. Again though, it depends on the instructor.
If your friend is from a staunchly "Traditional" Tang Soo Do school, the main difference he will encounter in a WTF school is more of a concentration on conditioning and speed. WTF Taekwondo is definitely (by my own experiences) more "Athletic" in nature.
Most of the terminology is the same though, so he won't have to relearn much of that.

 

[TigerWoman]

My school is WTF and definitely more athletic. We do a lot of jumping, cardiovascular work as as well as alot of variety and repetition of kicks. There's pushups, punching etc. too but the focus is on kicking. TW

 

[karatekid1975]

Thanks Jeff for letting me know about this thread

Anyways, I have done both (See my sig). I have only one year experience in TSD, but I can test for BB next fall in TKD, so I can give you some help.

It depends on the dojang/instructor. Both can be for sport or traditional. The TKD school I go to now, was a sport dojang. Lots of kicking and sparring for tourny style fighting. Now they do more traditional training (more self defense). My TSD dojang was very traditional. TSD reminds me of Shotokan (same forms, almost). Very "karate-like" (well, to me it seemed like that at my old dojang).

From my experience ..... The kicking in both are pretty much the same. The hand techniques are pretty much the same. The forms are different. Sparring rules are different (TSD point sparring, hand contact allowed to the head ... TKD Full contact, no hands allowed to the head). TSD takedowns, joint locks, ect. TKD rarely, except for upper ranks (again depending on the dojang/instructor/org). BUT my instructor teaches Chin Na, which isn't part of TKD, but it works TSD also (to me anyways) is about 50% hands, 50% kicks. TKD is 70%, 30% (in my dojang anyways, but getting better ).

Which brings me to my next subject. In either style, the instructor might add stuff from other styles. My TSD instructor added Hapkido, and Thai boxing. My TKD instructor also added a little thai boxing, plus Chin Na.

So what I'm getting at is it really depends on the instructors of either style. They can be way different, or they can be almost the same.

I hope this helps. I'm kind of rambling LOL.

 

[Zepp]

Hiya Shane,

If you or your friend read up on the history of TSD and the old kwans of TKD, you'll find that both styles are really just two branches of the same dysfunctional family. (There are several threads on history in this forum, and in the TKD section.) From what I've seen of TSD, it can be very similar to some of the older styles of TKD.

As far as your friend's rank matriculating, like others have said, that'll depend on the instructor and school your friend attends. I think you should encourage him to check out more than one TKD school in his area, as he just might find one where he'll feel right at home. (But then again, maybe not.)

 

[Miles]

I just asked a similar question in the Taekwondo area. Both arts seek character development, but I would say that Taekwondo is very much a different art than Tang Soo Do.

I teach Taekwondo in a Tang Soo Do dojang. My classes are very different than the other master in terms of material, curriculum, emphasis, and terminology.

Miles

 

[Disco]

Miles, would you be so kind as to elaborate on the differences of material, curriculum, emphasis, and terminology.

 

[jfarnsworth]

I teach Taekwondo in a Tang Soo Do dojang. My classes are very different than the other master in terms of material, curriculum, emphasis, and terminology.

How much could really be different? :idunno:

 

[Miles]

Miles, would you be so kind as to elaborate on the differences of material, curriculum, emphasis, and terminology.

Sure, but it may be a pretty long post.

Material/Emphasis-There are differences in stances between the 2 arts with generally TSD stances being longer-there is a post somewhere in this area on this exact subject so I won't go any further.

TSD also utilizes more hand techniques than TKD. In sparring and hoshinsul, TKDin use different footwork in order to deliver attacks/counter-attacks. Indeed, because TKD uses continuous full contact sparring (whereas TSD does point), the counter-attack is stressed more in training.

TKD and TSD have different "set ups"-crossing the arms for closed-fist blocks and how "knifehand blocks" are set up-arms extended shoulder-level in TKD, whereas TSDin have their hands at belt-level.

TKD uses more snapping motion kicks whereas TSD uses more "thrusting" kicks.

Curriculum-in most TKD schools, sparring is introduced progressively: promise sparring (ie. no contact), then light-contact, and finally full contact. Since TSD sparring is point, it is light-contact with no progression.TSD allows head strikes in sparring, TKD does not.

Forms-there is an emphasis in TSD schools on forms which is not present in TKD. The forms are different-TSD uses the older pyung-ahn series, bassai, etc. whereas in TKD (Kukkiwon) forms are shorter, more symmetrical. I have also seen different TSD schools use the same forms at different rank levels. TKD has a standard-one form per rank with nearly universal applicability (i.e. Taeguek 8 for cho-dan)

Terminology-TSD uses the original terminology for its techniques-for example "ha dan/chung dan/sang dan makki" versus "arae/momtong/eugol makki" for TKD.

Please do not misconstrue my point. I am not saying one is better than the other-they are just different. Hope this helps!

Miles

 

[NoSword]

I agree with everything said. It depends on the instructor you train under and the particular curriculum he/she uses. One example that comes to mind from my own background is the spin sidekick and reverse kick. The first Tae Kwon Do school I trained at taught us how to do a spin sidekick. When I switched from TKD to TSD we learned how to do a reverse kick. However when I had the opprotunity to train in TKD again with a different organization they also taught the reverse kick that I learned in TSD. Its interesting to see the similarities and differences on how the common techniques between the two styles are thrown and how they are used.

 

[Disco]

Miles, thanks for the reply and the information. It was "Pro Bono" wasen't it? :uhyeah:

 

[Miles]

Miles, thanks for the reply and the information. It was "Pro Bono" wasen't it? :uhyeah:

Absolutely!

 

[MichiganTKD]

To elaborate on Miles' point:

The Tae Kwon Do as practiced in a traditional (i.e. Kwan-based) school can be very similar to Tang Soo Do, in terms of stances, execution of technique, kicking etc. Our Instructor taught Chung Do Kwan TKD, but WTF free fighting. So many of our techniques apart from free fighting are similar to TSD:
Deeper stances as opposed to walking stances
Thrust kicks as opposed to snap kicks
Low block ending with a straight arm, as opposed to a bent arm, which I hate.
Original pronunciation of terms (chung dan/sang dan)
Emphasis on power as opposed to training for points.
Palgue forms, as opposed to Taegeuk forms, which I also dislike. To me, Taegeuk forms are just watered down newer forms that the WTF does as an excuse to say they have forms. I'll tale Palgue any day. And Palgue forms are still recognized by the WTF BTW.
The modern version of TKD has shifted away from all that in an effort to emphasize free fighting, losing much of what made original TKD so good. Nobody ever accused Tae Kwon Do of 40 years ago of being ineffective or watered down.

 

[shane23ss]

Well, it seems like what I am hearing is that it really depends on the school/instructor. Obviously TSD is closer to TKD than Kenpo is to either of them, but sounds like they have their differences as well. Like I said, what Reggie was really trying to find out was if he could go to a TKD school a pick it up fairly easy since he has spent so much time in TSD and there are no schools around here. He should do like most of you said and check out many schools. Thanks for your comments. Keep em coming if you like for my own info.

 

[Dr. Kenpo]

I had read that TSD was more "in close self defense" oriented that TKD. Is that true?

Thanks

 

[TigerWoman]

I had read that TSD was more "in close self defense" oriented that TKD. Is that true?

Our self-defense is arm length for the first 4 ranks and after that they are all in close. Also the ones we don't test on are close range. TW