Trapping discussion

[brothershaw]

Agreed, a simpler way to say what I was trying to say.

 

[James Kovacich]

Guys, first off my comments about trapping in class and in the street seem to be a little misunderstood.Against a person that is not trained extensivley in trapping will not block the shot.Been there done that. Lets say faceing off against someone the first thing I do is blast the shin with a low kick.As soon as my foot lands I Pak his front hand HARD and throw my shot.I f he is not trained in trapping he will not react to that shot and throw up a rear barrier.The way I teach a Pak sao it has to hurt and if you dont train your forearms it will hurt.A basic combo in JKD is to Pak the front hand,throw a backfist and then throw a cross.Chi Sao and Hubud are trained to deal with a clash in trapping range-how to move your opponents hands around to give you a more favorable position.The problem is some people think after all the back and forth drills we do is that an opponent will go counter to counter with you.One of the things I train my advanced guys is for them to trap on me and I counter with the sloppy wild things most streetfighters do.I play the part of the boxer or grappler and show how to deal with that.Then one can see how the concepts and techniques of trapping are used 'for real" Barry www.combatartsusa.com

I think I hear you now. You just stated something I touched on earlier. We do the drills but not traditional chi sao. At a higher level a student can and will get better by training their chi sao but early on they need to know ALL the things they could accomlpish using trapping as an entry.

 

[NotQuiteDead]

I don't think of clinching at trapping. When you trap, you're moving something out of the way to strike. When you're clinching, you don't just move something out of the way, you are continually controlling the opponent.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I don't think of clinching at trapping. When you trap, you're moving something out of the way to strike. When you're clinching, you don't just move something out of the way, you are continually controlling the opponent.

I understand what's you're saying, but couldn't you say that a lop sau is a kind of control, control of body movement?

And do you always control the opponent in a clinch?

 

[arnisador]

I think of lop sau more as obstruction removal--clearing a path.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I think it can be both, depending on how it is used. You may just remove an onstacle - or you may remove an obstacle whilst moving your opponent in a particular manner.

 

[arnisador]

Yes, it's always good to drive your opponent off-balance, and I like to do that with such a technique. But, I think a lop sau has a primary purpose of clearing the way--it's a success if all it does is make room for the punch. I don't think I disagree with you, but I also don't think I'd use it for the kind of control I associate with a clinch--really keeping him from moving--as I think of a lop sau as more transient.

Fundamentally, I think "clinch" is a useful concept with its own feel, and I believe it's helpful to keep it as its own category. But, it's also good to think outside the box!

 

[JKogas]

I don't think of clinching at trapping. When you trap, you're moving something out of the way to strike. When you're clinching, you don't just move something out of the way, you are continually controlling the opponent.

In the clinch, the idea IS to remove the obstruction from either working to strike or take your opponent down. Fundamentally, trapping and clinching are one and the same. It is only that you have more control over your opponent when you have such an attachment (as the clinch). The clinch is just a name. Their are a variety of different positions within the range known as the clinch.

From hand fighting, to a collar and elbow tie up, to an underhook(etc) - all are methods of removing obstructions from your attempted attacks. That is precisely what "trapping" (in the traditional sense) was designed to do.


Cheers,

-John

 

[ufsofpa]

well, lets just sy this. ive been in situations where trapping played a minor role. Trapping in a fight is removing a barrier to keep going with you intentions. Remember this quote by Paul Vunak,"In training we spend 95% trapping in classand 5% hitting, in a street fight it is the other side of the coin". So remember, in a fight, it goes so quick you may not trap, but that is not meening dont train it. Keep doing it, but remember you may not use it in a real world situation.
Rick
UFSOFPA rep.

 

[Flatlander]

Welcome to Martial Talk, Rick!

I agree with your post there, we may not have the opportunity to use trapping, but the more we train it, the opportunities may present themselves.

 

[Danny T]

In my opinion, "trapping" is a by-product of strking. The training I have in Wing Chun is to Hit. The wing chun person is dedicated to hitting but not to or with any particular hit or strike. The trap happens in the course of striking. If during the strike something happens to be in the way then if properly trained the wing chun person coverts the strike movement into a trap and continues with another strike. If one can actually hit with the strike then there is no reason to trap. The problems happen when one is more concerned with trapping rather than hitting or is dedicated to any one hit. There are several different ways to trap depending upon what the situation is. The simplest traps and hits during the same movement. Another clears the way even if only for an instant, others control the opponent's arm or leg from movement for a beat of time, some control the arm or leg from any movement, and some traps control the opponent's body movements or form or structure. However, it is all due to the proper placement of one's weapons and strike movement that traps happen otherwise one is trapping for trapping sake when one should be hitting.

Clinching is a form of trapping or controlling however the way it is used is quite different from WC trapping. Or at least from the trapping I have learned.

Danny Terrell