Transition Movements

[MBuzzy]

I am curious what everyone's opinion is on the moves we make in between the moves. I'm talking about when you're doing Hyung or marching the floor doing basics. When you go from Right handed low block to left handed low block, there has to be a transition step, not only to generate power (from the hips and acceleration of the blocking arm, plus possible twisting motion), but to keep yourself guarded - and in some people's opinion, much much more (hidden throws, grabs, strikes, etc).

So my two questions are....

1. How do you execute these? Now this is a very complex question, since each movement has a different transition....so to keep it simple, we can start with simple Low Block (Ha Dan Mahk Kee). Does the blocking hand cross your body to opposite shoulder? Above or below chambering hand, plam up, palm down, palm in? Does it twist on the way down, once you get there, before it moves, etc...

2. What do you think about these moves? More abstract question....are they all hidden movements? Ways of encoding more complex ideas...or are they what they look like, simple chambering and throwing of the technique to get power, speed, etc.

Some of this is pretty simple, since there are some basics across the board, whether TSD, SBD, or even TKD...some things are standard. But the point is to examine what ISN'T standard, what changes between schools and organizations...and more importantly, why does it change?

 

[Makalakumu]

Some of this is pretty simple, since there are some basics across the board, whether TSD, SBD, or even TKD...some things are standard. But the point is to examine what ISN'T standard, what changes between schools and organizations...and more importantly, why does it change?

I'm going to have to come back and talk about 1 and 2 later. I wrote a paper for my black belt exam on that very topic. In essence, the transition moves are very important. These are usually showing how you are entering and defending against an attack. The subsequent reaction is the response to attack. The reason that these aren't standard is because no body knows about this. It was never taught and was just changed willy nilly based on this or that misconception. With my forms, I currently struggle with these moves. Ideally, I would like to revert these moves to what they originally were. That will take a long time however.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

1. How do you execute these? Now this is a very complex question, since each movement has a different transition....so to keep it simple, we can start with simple Low Block (Ha Dan Mahk Kee). Does the blocking hand cross your body to opposite shoulder? Above or below chambering hand, plam up, palm down, palm in? Does it twist on the way down, once you get there, before it moves, etc...

There's a complex answer to that, because it involves so much. In fact, one of the first things I usually try to teach a new white belt is how to walk (in chungul jase). One of the central tenets of ITF TSD is "pick up your feet;" there are only a very few exceptions (palche so, some stance-changing moves with no step) where we drag any part of our feet along the ground as we walk. The basic walking step is this: from left-leg-forward, bring the right knee straight up to the chest, keeping the left knee bent at the same level, and step forward with the right foot into right-foot-forward. This goes for all stances: chungul jase, hugul jase, and even sometimes keema jase (ex: when doing weng jeng kong kyuk, as in the middle sequence for gicho hyung sam bu). No matter what, the knee comes straight up to the chest.

This has a few reasons behind it. First and foremost, you're avoiding someone sweeping your front leg (if you're stepping forward, you're not in a position where your back leg could be swept by anyone except Dhalsim). Secondly, you can ahp chagi very easily from this position. In fact, you can do just about any other kick just as easily from this position. Thirdly, it's easier to focus on landing hand and foot at the same time if the foot actually has to land. Fourthly, you're much less likely to stumble forward with your move; you'll have purpose behind each movement. Control of movement means better control of power. Also, you want to make sure that you're using your hips to snap into the move as you land. For example, in the first moves of pyung ahn e dan/sam dan/sa dan/o dan, you bring your knee straight up first and then use your rotation to drive the block as you go to the side. Going forward is the same story. You're not going in a 90-degree angle, but you still bring your knee straight up first and then rotate your hip to put power behind the move as you step down. You never bring your knee out to the side.

Now, the hand part. If you're doing a crossing block (ha dan mahkee, sang dan mahkee, ahneso pahkero mahkee, et. al.) you cross with one fist up on the opposite shoulder, palm facing inward, and the other fist punched straight down in front for protection. Your elbows should be on top of each other. Depending on which block you're doing, the up hand may be the blocking hand or vice versa (low blocks come from above, middle/high blocks usually come from below). The aim is to keep as much of your body protected as possible. What about the head, you say? This is most apparent in inside-outside blocks. When you do the block, you don't stay straight forward. Your hands stay in the same position, but your hips rotate your torso, so that now the fist on your shoulder is protecting your face. Similar story for high blocks. In a low block, you probably don't need face protection if you're blocking it low.

Knife-hand blocks are more complex. We used to do middle knife-hand blocks by bringing both hands to the hip first, but that led people to stop using enough waist twist. So now the opposite hand (the one that will be in front) comes to the hip, but the other hand goes behind the back, palm facing outward, so you have to put rotation into it. Low knife-hand blocks are similar: the hand that will be in front comes to the opposite shoulder, facing the neck, while the other hand winds up behind the back, palm outward.

I'd go into detail for each and every move, but that'd be exhaustive in more than one sense of the word.

2. What do you think about these moves? More abstract question....are they all hidden movements? Ways of encoding more complex ideas...or are they what they look like, simple chambering and throwing of the technique to get power, speed, etc.

Yes.

That is, both. A low block can be used effectively to block something low, just as a high block can be used to block something high, and a soo do attack can be used as a chop. They can also be applied with the more hidden moves, such as catching an opponent's hand, throwing, et cetera. Each technique has various levels of hidden opportunity, and it's up to you to decide how far into that you want to go. You could spend your whole life researching every minute detail into what a hyung might encode, or you could just do the moves on their surface and supplement that with learning how to throw, grapple, and lock. Or you could split the difference anywhere in between. Both inform each other.

Tang Soo!

 

[Makalakumu]

This thread has some information and videos that describe my view of how to use the transition motions we are talking about. Basically, what we call a Mahkee or a Kun Kyuk is totally misleading because in any of those techniques, there are both blocks and strikes and a whole load of other stuff. The key that I wanted people to see with this thread is that each of the "blocks" that I used in the video and basic blocking kata are nothing more then the transition moves in techniques we "traditionally" call blocks and strikes.

I believe that the terminology that we use does the real application a grave injustice. It perpetuates a meme that hides the real use of these techniques. And that is why the transition moves have been mangled by just about every kwan lineage. I've personally seen four different ways of performing middle block in my area. There is absolutely no technical explanation for the difference that doesn't break down under the slightest scrutiny.

My favorite way to reveal this is to throw a front kick and see if someone can use the technique to actually block it. Even third and fourth dans have had trouble. Then I show how we do it with the transitions with the follow up strike being the "blocking" motion they were attempting to use, and you can just see the cognitive dissonance splay across their faces.

It's not impossible to turn a strike into a block, but it certainly works better to just use it like it was meant to be used.

 

[Miles]

It's not impossible to turn a strike into a block, but it certainly works better to just use it like it was meant to be used.

From the Kukkiwon's website:
"A man of good defense techniques may not necessarily provoke a fighting, although he is capable of winning. To the contrary, a man of insufficient defense capabilities would prove himself stupid if he dares a fighting. Defending oneself from attacks alone could not lead to a final solution, if the other party continues attacking; therefore, it is necessary to apply the techniques of weakening the opponent's offensive.
That is why most of makki Taekwondo techniques are designed to hurt the opponent in the course of defending oneself by using the wrists or hand blades, which, if trained hard, may inflict impacts on the other party's vital points, making the latter's arms and legs incapacitated.
Therefore, makki techniques must be trained hard so that they may function equally as offensive techniques. With this, one may show himself or herself generously, not by winning over the opponent by initiative attacks but by overcoming the latter by mere defense techniques without impairing others. This is indeed a righteous way if a man of virtue that Taekwondo teaches.
For that reason, Taekwondo training is planned to begin with the makki techniques, which will be follows by the training of offensive techniques. That is , Taekwondo never allows any initiative move of attack in its techniques."

I know some instructors who teach there are no hard blocks-that every defensive motion is a parry or a deflection. But, I have been on the receiving end of blocks which took away much of my "aggressive enthusiasm".

Miles