"Internal" martial art or external martial art, which training can help you to live longer?

[Xue Sheng]

If you repeat your Karate form in slow motion, you should get the same health benefit than from Taiji form training.

Nope, more to doing taijiquan than just doing the form slow. A lot of Karate guys have a very hard time with taijquan forms

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Nope, more to doing taijiquan than just doing the form slow. A lot of Karate guys have a very hard time with taijquan forms

Karate guys just need to understand that the end of the move 1 is the beginning of the move 2; To treat their Karate form as a non-stop continuous form instead.

Most Karate moves are linear. Most Taiji moves are circular. But Taiji "lady work on shuttle" is linear which is no difference from Karate upper block and punch.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Karate guys just need to understand that the end of the move 1 is the beginning of the move 2; To treat their Karate form as a non-stop continuous form instead.

Not really. Karate forms are a series of usually 3-4 individual moves designed for a specific attack. It is true that in each individual series move #1 is the beginning of move #2 and so on for that particular combo series. Each series is like a word - several letters combined. After that word is spelled out there is a space, then another word against a different attack, space, etc. So, there is normally a pause after each word. 10-20 words put together is the kata.

Now, kata can be performed in a fluid, non-stop manner for practicing flow, but they were not designed that way.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Now, kata can be performed in a fluid, non-stop manner for practicing flow, but they were not designed that way.

The reason that you want to do fluid and non-stop so you can let your comfortable breathing speed to control your moving speed. This way you can achieve "calm" stage in training for health purpose.

Even if your form was not designed that way, you can still do that way for health purpose if nothing more.

You don't have to do in constant speed. You can still do in variant speed continuous and non-stop. If you "pull your punch back fast", you them compress and release for your next move at your normal speed, all MA form can be trained as a non-stop continuous form.

I have tried this approach in my advance long fist form. It works very well. I don't know if my long fist teacher would like the way that I do long fist form or not. Should I care?

 

[Same Trick]

. A lot of Karate guys have a very hard time with taijquan forms

That’s mostly true, however there are some important shared commons between karate and taiji. Many taiji guys would probably point to relaxation while practicing would be something a karateka got some trouble with, but karatekas spar/fight a lot and the more they do that the better they will tap into the sense of correct relaxed focus. If the taiji teacher teach correctly the karateka will easily understand how to do out of his already gained understanding.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Karate guys just need to understand that the end of the move 1 is the beginning of the move 2; To treat their Karate form as a non-stop continuous form instead.

Most Karate moves are linear. Most Taiji moves are circular. But Taiji "lady work on shuttle" is linear which is no difference from Karate upper block and punch.

The way Karate forms are sometimes done with a lot of muscularly tense movement can cause issues, seen it many times with Karate and TKD practitioners that came to learn taijiquan. Even when moiving slowly, they tend to be to tense. Takes a while for them to relax

 

[Xue Sheng]

That’s mostly true, however there are some important shared commons between karate and taiji. Many taiji guys would probably point to relaxation while practicing would be something a karateka got some trouble with, but karatekas spar/fight a lot and the more they do that the better they will tap into the sense of correct relaxed focus. If the taiji teacher teach correctly the karateka will easily understand how to do out of his already gained understanding.

I did not say Karate folks can't do taijiquan, I said that simply doing a KArate form slowly is not tijiquan. Seen many Karate and TKD folks show up to my Shifu's class to learn taijiquan, only one stayed a long time and got himself to relax. He came from Okinawan Uechi-Ryu Karate and continued training it while in taijiquan.

Most did not stay that long, and I am certain they left for various reasons, but it takes them some time to get the stiffness out of their form

 

[Same Trick]

I did not say Karate folks can't do taijiquan, I said that simply doing a KArate form slowly is not tijiquan. Seen many Karate and TKD folks show up to my Shifu's class to learn taijiquan, only one stayed a long time and got himself to relax. He came from Okinawan Uechi-Ryu Karate and continued training it while in taijiquan.

Most did not stay that long, and I am certain they left for various reasons, but it takes them some time to get the stiffness out of their form

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply you said something downgrading about karate/karatekas. And yes I agree, doing karate slow doesn’t make it taijiquan

Oh, let me add, plenty of traditional karate kata have parts with slow movements/stepping, especially with the stepping one see/experience a very fundamental importance similar to TJQ,

 

[isshinryuronin]

I did not say Karate folks can't do taijiquan, I said that simply doing a KArate form slowly is not tijiquan. Seen many Karate and TKD folks show up to my Shifu's class to learn taijiquan, only one stayed a long time and got himself to relax. He came from Okinawan Uechi-Ryu Karate and continued training it while in taijiquan.

Agree that slow karate is not taiji. Although doing it slow will help promote relaxation and smoothness of technique, there are some fundamental differences beyond the speed of execution.

Uechi-ryu is a recent descendent of Southern CMA Uechi called pangai noon. While most karate styles were based on CMA brought to Okinawa in the latter 1700's to mid 1800's, Uechi didn't bring his art (largely based on the tiger/crane style of Shu Shiwa. aka Zhou Zhie) until the start of the 1900's and so is less "Okinawanized." retaining more of its Chinese flavor.

Much of the "stiffness" seen in modern karate is a result of the Japanese ideal of how it should look, stressing particular technique characteristics.

 

[windwalker099]

Oh, let me add, plenty of traditional karate kata have parts with slow movements/stepping, especially with the stepping one see/experience a very fundamental importance similar to TJQ,

In internal arts like Taiji, the Six Harmonies are essential. They align mind, energy, and body, forming the foundation for how intent (yi), energy (qi), and structure work together to act on others.

While some karate kata like Sanchin, and certain CMA sets like Iron Wire or Cotton Needle, may appear similar to Taijiquan in terms of slow movement or stepping, they do not follow the Six Harmonies framework in the way Taiji does.

It's different.

One may not realize just how different, until they have tried to make the change to taiji, or have encountered those that did.

Master Lü Baochun talks about the process

He talks of before contact “touch” something that can be confusing when shown in demos

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Agree that slow karate is not taiji.

2 days ago, I did a leg lift solo drill in normal speed without proper warm up, I felt my right rooting leg muscle had some pain. After 1 day resting yesterday, today I feel normal again. May be this is why people need to slow down during old age training.

If you listen to your body and do the speed that your body feel comfortable, Karate or Taiji should make no difference at all.

 

[Same Trick]

In internal arts like Taiji, the Six Harmonies are essential. They align mind, energy, and body, forming the foundation for how intent (yi), energy (qi), and structure work together to act on others.

While some karate kata like Sanchin, and certain CMA sets like Iron Wire or Cotton Needle, may appear similar to Taijiquan in terms of slow movement or stepping, they do not follow the Six Harmonies framework in the way Taiji does.

It's different.

One may not realize just how different, until they have tried to make the change to taiji, or have encountered those that did.

Master Lü Baochun talks about the process

He talks of before contact “touch” something that can be confusing when shown in demos

That’s true, the slower moves/stepping in karate kata don’t consciously follow “any” 6 harmony method, however the stepping in itself follow same principles as TJQ as in not pushing away to step and not falling into the step, so it work in similar ways for the abdominal/lower back/ lower body, and there should be a coordination between legs and arms similar as in TJQ but it it’s not done with a 6H intent, mostly just done because it kind looks and feels right.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

but it it’s not done with a 6H intent, mostly just done because it kind looks and feels right.

1 is better than 1,2. 1,2 is better than 1,2,3.

There is a good reason that leg and arm should be coordinated. We have 2 arms and 2 legs. If we can coordinate arm with leg, we can combine 4 body parts into 2 body parts. This can make a technique faster and also easy to learn.

For example, if you have 4 moves - step in, downward block, step in, punch, you can make it into 2 moves - step in and downward block, step in and punch.

Here is an example of "step in and punch" as 1 move.

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