training with the pole

[matsu]

hi guys
i did a whole session with the pole last night- not thats its part of our usual curriculum but we were working on some specifics,
copying a demo peice my sifu uses.
and wow - so much fun but OMG this morning i cant move my wrists and forearms lol
i,m going to get a heavy pole and start using it as a workout.
if you avent had a go,,, then ask and see what you lot think.
i really enjoyed it
matsu

 

[KamonGuy2]

hi guys
i did a whole session with the pole last night- not thats its part of our usual curriculum but we were working on some specifics,
copying a demo peice my sifu uses.
and wow - so much fun but OMG this morning i cant move my wrists and forearms lol
i,m going to get a heavy pole and start using it as a workout.
if you avent had a go,,, then ask and see what you lot think.
i really enjoyed it
matsu

The pole is actually one of the hardest things to get right and one of the easiest forms to learn!!

The eight and a half foot pole is a lot different to using a six foot one (it discplines your hands and basic movement)

Its good that you are doing it in class, but I would reccomend learning pole and knives privately with the top guy (in your case James Sinclair), as in class its easy to get distracted with everyone else swinging their poles around - no inuendo intended...

 

[matsu]

no pun taken.... but funny!

im going to get a pole and work with my weds sifu privately if he can do it. and ill use it to build my base,my knowledge and my strength in the right areas.

just wondered how many people-moreso the less experienced have got to use them. its fascinating and as you say KG, exprtreemely difficult to do.
but another challenge to work on.
matsu

 

[cwk]

Hi, haven't posted for a few days as the city where I live was hit by a tropical storm and flooded up to about 3 metres of water.So I've had no internet connection.
Anyway...
I love training our pole form, though it's different to most versions I see on the web. it's much longer with more footwork, including jumps, crouches, "flower" patterns and even a section where you spin the pole 360 degrees above your head then strike someone. Really pumps the forearms.
It's an interesting way to condition your body and helps to reinforce the idea of using the whole body, via correct stances and footwork, to generate power to a single point.
The applications are cool also.

 

[WC_lun]

I enjoy weapons work and the pole is one of my favorites. In my opinion, it is very good for highlighting range, timing, base, structure, and the power connection between your feet, hips, and elbows. It is pretty good at increasing some of the physical attributes as well.

 

[geezer]

In the system I train (an offshoot of the WT lineage) the weapons are held back for many years and only practiced in private or with others who have also been taught. Accordingly, very few people train the pole... and that leaves those of us that do pretty isolated. So the while form and supplementary exercises do help build strength and structure, we end up working alone and not really developing good chi-kwun or the practical skills. This is so opposite from my escrima training where you lean quickly, and quickly apply what you learn. Honestly, it's a bit frustrating.

 

[yak sao]

In the system I train (an offshoot of the WT lineage) the weapons are held back for many years and only practiced in private or with others who have also been taught. Accordingly, very few people train the pole... and that leaves those of us that do pretty isolated. So the while form and supplementary exercises do help build strength and structure, we end up working alone and not really developing good chi-kwun or the practical skills. This is so opposite from my escrima training where you lean quickly, and quickly apply what you learn. Honestly, it's a bit frustrating.

Same here...it's a bit frustrating not having someone to train chi kwun with. The others who have the pole in our group (four of us altogether)
end up training chi sau when we do get together because that is what the rest of the group is training on.

 

[mook jong man]

In our lineage the preparation exercises alone for the Pole must be practiced for many years before you are even taught anything else regarding the Pole.

These basically consist of the the Chair Gwun exercise which is pretty much learning to advance and retreat in a low horse stance while punching to the side.

This trains the extra power needed from the upper body to strike powerfully with the the Pole from a side on stance , building on the foundation already layed down by the training of the Bil Gee form.
A few minutes of this exercise and the quads are blown to hell and people find it hard to stand up.

The other main exercise is the lowering and raising of the Pole , keeping the Pole perfectly level whilst raising and lowering it on a completely vertical axis.
An exercise that is a lot harder than it looks.

The weapons are last in our lineage , and I believe it to be for very good reason , to be able to wield them properly and not get them knocked out of your hands in a real fight requires a great deal of skill , timing , body unity , speedy footwork etc.

Unlike an unarmed fight where you might be able to wear a few strikes , there will be no second chances in a fight where these weapons are involved.
One mistake and you are dead meat.

So is it really any surprise that a solid foundation be layed down in empty hand fighting before even touching the Wing Chun weapons is required.

It takes a very long time in our lineage to get to the point where you start to learn the weapons , something like about 12 years or more approx.

Which is why I sought my weapons training in other systems , where it is taught straight off the bat ( or more accurately the knife and machete).

 

[matsu]

I appreciate why it is left to very advanced students and i will probably get just as fustrated in a few years when I'm happier with my unarmed skill set. This was an imprmptu session and I spent most of the hour + session going thru just the basicmoves on a 121 basis with one of the sifus.
We have often "warmed up" by working thru a few pole moves rather than the 1000 punch sequence etc.
Like the dummy workshops I have attended I love learning new stuff and I'll get A pole but more for a workout tool rather than naively expect to become good at it.
I couldn't believe how difficult it was to even just keep it level whilst moving it lol.
Thanks again for all the great info
matsu

 

[bully]

I have a pole but no one to teach me. KG confirms what Kevin Chan said to me, its easy to learn the movements but like anything....a lifetime to master!!
I have played with my pole ;-) many times!! lol
Seriously I dont want to do alot as I might pick up bad techniques. I will wait until I meet CWK or when I get back next year and either come to the UK or get someone to come to Jersey to teach for a weekend.

 

[matsu]

Bully- I'm not sure I would shouting so loud I played with my pole alone at home alot lol....
But I think it's again like the rest of wing chun... Looks so easy and simple untill u try to do it.
I think I'll b lucky enough to have a sifu who will help me even if it's one tiny aspect at a time perhaps fortnightly and then I go away and work on that untill he says it's right.
But I know what you mean about bad habits. I did that with my first form without realising it
and even just recently with chi sau.... Untill we had a whole lesson on it again and found out why things were going wrong. So I won't be randomly practising at home on certain things.
Now big question to anyOne experienced....
How do I knowcwhat pole to buy for newbie practising?
And englanders/Brits ....
Where do I buy a decent pole from ??

 

[KamonGuy2]

I have a pole but no one to teach me. KG confirms what Kevin Chan said to me, its easy to learn the movements but like anything....a lifetime to master!!
I have played with my pole ;-) many times!! lol
Seriously I dont want to do alot as I might pick up bad techniques. I will wait until I meet CWK or when I get back next year and either come to the UK or get someone to come to Jersey to teach for a weekend.

Ive always wanted to come to Jersey! The Kamon pole form is very simple - there are no big swings or jumps and really just contains the bog standard movements for efficiency

There is a nice clip on youtube of Sam Kwok doing the pole form and there is an incredible amount of control whilst he does it.

My reccomendation to you Bully is to learn the pole form from Kevin Chan as he is technically flawless with it. However, if that fails, maybe I'll arrange a weekend away to Jersey to come help you out

 

[bully]

KG that will hopefully be my plan when I get back...plans are to be travelling until June next year so a while yet.
You never know, if I can get any interest here (Jersey) in WC again and get some kind of club/group going then you may well get an invite to run a seminar!! Could you do me a favour too please, pm me Kevins email as it is on my home pc and I have no access to it. I just want to ask him if he will be in HK etc next year at any time or Thailand at Xmas.
I got my pole from Derek Frearson in the end Matsu, after many attempts to Pagoda who never bothered returning my or my wifes calls to them. Emails were the same. In all honesty I would never bother with them again. Up to you though as you can pay them a visit maybe...not so easy for me.

 

[matsu]

thanks for the info bully
your blog looks very cool.
very jealous of everywhere you have travelled to thus far.keep us posted.
ill let you know if i decide to buy and where from.

matsu