Training by yourself

[Kittan Bachika]

If you have reached a certain level in your training where you have a good understanding of the fundamentals, is it possible to actually develop?

There is a catch though. Through proper repetition, it is a just a matter of time that you will be able to refine your technique. However, if you are training by yourself, your skill level in sparring will be quite low.

Also it depends on the style. For instance, Kung Fu or martial arts with a forms based a curriculum would be more appropriate because the curriculum is designed for one person to train on their own.

Grappling arts like Judo, require at least two people practice with in order to develop properly. You could use a practice dummy but you would still be quite limited in your development. Then again Rich Franklin started his MMA career by watching videos and working out on his own.

 

[WC_lun]

Speaking as a kung fu guy, it isn't designed for a guy to train on thier own. Forms are just one training tool. No fighting system can be learned to any degreee of proficiency without training with others. That tactile input is neccesary to learn to fight. Without it, you are just waving your arms in the air. The thinking that forms only are a substitute for solid training is akin to thinking a screw driver is all you need to fix a car. it is just one tool and not designed to do everything.

Rich Franklin might have started out with DVDs, but he progressed from there. If he hadn't have trained with and continued to train with competant MMA trainers, he would not be in the UFC.

 

[Kittan Bachika]

Speaking as a kung fu guy, it isn't designed for a guy to train on thier own. Forms are just one training tool. No fighting system can be learned to any degreee of proficiency without training with others. That tactile input is neccesary to learn to fight. Without it, you are just waving your arms in the air. The thinking that forms only are a substitute for solid training is akin to thinking a screw driver is all you need to fix a car. it is just one tool and not designed to do everything.

Rich Franklin might have started out with DVDs, but he progressed from there. If he hadn't have trained with and continued to train with competant MMA trainers, he would not be in the UFC.

I just want to clarify my points to make sure that you know where I am coming from.

When I mean fundamentals, I do not just forms but all of the things that compromise an art, stances, blocks, strikes and kicks.

When I am talking about people who have reached a certain level in the fundamentals of the art, I am not talking about beginners. For the sake of argument let us say it isa black black belt level martial artist.

You can't spar by yourself. You need to be interacting with a live human being. But those other aspects of training do not require another person can be developed in a solo environment.

There was a period where Mas Oyama lived in the mountains and just trained by himself. After coming out of his self imposed exile, he was a complete beast.

As I pointed out, grappling is probably the most difficult art to develop by one's own. As for Rich Franklin, I am not disagreeing with you. I stated he started by watching dvds and training on his own. He obviously is not doing it now

 

[searcher]

You can make your technique more efficient, so this will make you better.

You can help your muscle memory by doing forms and basics, so this will make you better.

You can build power and conditioning by working the bag, this will make you better.

You can make progress working on your own, but only as far as what you know. To increase your knowledge, you need to work with others. Even if they are not an instructor, others can share their knowledge with you and help you grow. I have learned much from my own students, maybe even more than they have learned from me. JMHO.

 

[Chris Parker]

Solo training is essential for those times when you don't have someone to train with, basically. For example, our classes are held once a week, and if there's no home training, then progress can be incredibly slow.... so I provide material for the students to train solo at home. And yes, I can see who is and who isn't actually doing the home training, and it's the ones who are that improve. How that training is conducted changes depending on the skill set being worked on, but pretty much anything can be trained solo. In terms of throws (say, Judo as mentioned earlier... which does have kata, by the way, although it is paired kata), there are ways to train those solo at home. For resistance, a resistance band can be wrapped around a tree, or something else sturdy, and you can practice moving in, and trying to "throw" the tree. It does improve your action quite nicely!

But to address a small comment made earlier....

No fighting system can be learned to any degreee of proficiency without training with others.

Er, is this where we point out Iai, Kyudo, and others again?

 

[Bruno@MT]

Er, is this where we point out Iai, Kyudo, and others again?

Well, technically, kyudo is a solo art which requires no interaction with an opponent.

 

[Chris Parker]

Exactly my point, there, Bruno.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Oops. I was a bit hast in my reply.
You are right about kyudo, but doesn't iaido contain partner kata? Imo, distancing and angling require a partner to drill it properly.

 

[Chris Parker]

Depends on the system itself. Tenshinsho Den Katori Shinto Ryu has all of it's Iaijutsu and Battojutsu solo, Seitei is solo, Muso Shinden Ryu is solo, Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu is solo, however it contains some paired kata at a high level, Hontai Yoshin Ryu Iai (taken primarily from Toyama Ryu) is both, Asayama Ichiden Ryu Iai is all paired....

 

[WC_lun]

I'll say it again...

No fighting system can be learned to any degreee of proficiency without training with others.

If you want to learn to fight there are many training tools, and some of those are indeed solo training tools. However, in the end you MUST fight. You can't do that by yourself.

Grappling arts are no more or less applicable to this than striking arts. Grappling and striking arts still deal with the same issues. The range migth be different, depending upon the situation, but you are still trying to effect another person's body when they don't want you to. For some reason people seem to think that striking arts are more simplistic. That is't true. People also seem to think grappling arts are less violent. That is equally as false.

 

[Kittan Bachika]

I'll say it again...

No fighting system can be learned to any degreee of proficiency without training with others.

If you want to learn to fight there are many training tools, and some of those are indeed solo training tools. However, in the end you MUST fight. You can't do that by yourself.

Grappling arts are no more or less applicable to this than striking arts. Grappling and striking arts still deal with the same issues. The range migth be different, depending upon the situation, but you are still trying to effect another person's body when they don't want you to. For some reason people seem to think that striking arts are more simplistic. That is't true. People also seem to think grappling arts are less violent. That is equally as false.

No debate, at least my end, in regards to sparring. In order to be proficient in that are you need a live human being.

 

[Chris Parker]

I'll say it again...

No fighting system can be learned to any degreee of proficiency without training with others.

If you want to learn to fight there are many training tools, and some of those are indeed solo training tools. However, in the end you MUST fight. You can't do that by yourself.

Grappling arts are no more or less applicable to this than striking arts. Grappling and striking arts still deal with the same issues. The range migth be different, depending upon the situation, but you are still trying to effect another person's body when they don't want you to. For some reason people seem to think that striking arts are more simplistic. That is't true. People also seem to think grappling arts are less violent. That is equally as false.

Then I'll say it again as well.... your exact quote is: No fighting SYSTEM can be learned to any degree of proficiency. And that shows a gap in your knowledge of fighting systems, including the ones I mentioned earlier. Nothing about learning to fight there, your quote was about learning systems. You could also look to modern handgun training, for the police and so on. This form of training doesn't involve people shooting at each other (at least, not in the main), however a fair amount of proficiency can be, and is attained by solo training (on a firing range).

It really has nothing to do with grappling systems versus striking systems, as that is far from the entire range of fighting systems that exist, and if you take it down to just those two, you haven't even covered the entirety of the range of unarmed systems that exist, as you've missed out those generalist systems that cover both.

And I'm not even entering into the whole "sparring versus fighting versus self defence" thing yet, as they are all rather different as well.

 

[WC_lun]

Then I'll say it again as well.... your exact quote is: No fighting SYSTEM can be learned to any degree of proficiency. And that shows a gap in your knowledge of fighting systems, including the ones I mentioned earlier. Nothing about learning to fight there, your quote was about learning systems. You could also look to modern handgun training, for the police and so on. This form of training doesn't involve people shooting at each other (at least, not in the main), however a fair amount of proficiency can be, and is attained by solo training (on a firing range).

If a system has only solo training then it isn't a fighting system. It might have elements based upon fight training, but without training with others and actual contact/rolling, it isn't training anyone to fight. So I still stand by my statement.

 

[seasoned]

If you have reached a certain level in your training where you have a good understanding of the fundamentals, is it possible to actually develop?.

You may get rusty, but you will not forget. As far as developing, perhaps in some areas, but at a slower pace.

There is a catch though. Through proper repetition, it is a just a matter of time that you will be able to refine your technique. However, if you are training by yourself, your skill level in sparring will be quite low.?.

Sparring yes, but in an article I read years back, Joe Louis the boxer stated when interviewed, after knocking out a would be mugger, " I don't box anymore but I didn't forget how to punch". You will always retain what you have learned provided you put the time and effort into it over many years. If this is not true then there are many elderly martial artist that have seen their day, that are fooling themselves. Obviously as one gets old they are not going to bang or roll like they used to, but lets not count them out.

Also it depends on the style. For instance, Kung Fu or martial arts with a forms based a curriculum would be more appropriate because the curriculum is designed for one person to train on their own.

Bingo!

Grappling arts like Judo, require at least two people practice with in order to develop properly. You could use a practice dummy but you would still be quite limited in your development. Then again Rich Franklin started his MMA career by watching videos and working out on his own.

At some point in time we all have to drop out of the ground and pound, that's the nature of getting old, but don't ever count out muscle memory, and the fire that may still be glowing just beneath the surface.:asian:

 

[Chris Parker]

If a system has only solo training then it isn't a fighting system. It might have elements based upon fight training, but without training with others and actual contact/rolling, it isn't training anyone to fight. So I still stand by my statement.

Then again I would suggest that your understanding of a fighting system is limited. Here's one of Bruno's favourite clips (he's posted it here a few times for various reasons), showing someone who has trained solo defeating a much younger, fitter, experienced "fighter" martial artist (karate-ka).

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If a fighting system has only solo training in it, that doesn't mean it isn't a fighting system, just that it has reasons for only training solo.

 

[Rich Parsons]

If you have reached a certain level in your training where you have a good understanding of the fundamentals, is it possible to actually develop?

There is a catch though. Through proper repetition, it is a just a matter of time that you will be able to refine your technique. However, if you are training by yourself, your skill level in sparring will be quite low.

Also it depends on the style. For instance, Kung Fu or martial arts with a forms based a curriculum would be more appropriate because the curriculum is designed for one person to train on their own.

Grappling arts like Judo, require at least two people practice with in order to develop properly. You could use a practice dummy but you would still be quite limited in your development. Then again Rich Franklin started his MMA career by watching videos and working out on his own.

See Chris's Post - Read it.

Solo training is very important and I can see when people improve by doing it as he stated.

Yet to stop all interaction and not see someone for corrections can be tough, so this is where your comment about having the right fundamentals in place will be key.

If you have a critical thinking mind, willing to epxress a hypothesys, and test it out and then revise it, one can think about training on their own.

Now this is the tricky part, if testing involves resisting opponents and you cannot use them, then you have to have been in situations such as this in the past to call upon and think back over and play out in your mind.