Tomorrow

[bully]

If it isnt too foggy in the morning (it was this morning) I am flying to Southampton to train with Kevin Chan for the day.

Really looking forward to it and cant wait to fuel my training with the basics he shows me. As a novice (due to the fact I was out of it so long) and I do truely consider myself that, I want him to start at the beginning and explain as much of the theory as possible. I wasnt told/taught this years ago and used my strength to get through sparring etc, now I am an unfit 38 year old I think its time to learn proper way ;-)

Hoping to start at 9-10am and finish around 5-6pm.

Doubt I will be able to type when I get back or even lift my arms so will report over the weekend.

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Thats great! Be sure to tell us how it goes! If I'll be going to the UK again, my first stop would be Kevin Chans school too. Acctualy, I might do something like that during the summer. And I hear the exchange rate from euro to pound is basicly 1:1 this days so it would be a lot cheaper to go than a few years back. And if I'm ever in America I would probably go to an Augustine Fong or an Ali Rahim school.

 

[paulus]

That sounds a like a good solid session. How did you organise that? Is it a one to one session? Did you just ring him up on the off chance?

I'll check back for the report!

 

[bully]

Kevin has some history here in Jersey with some of the guys I used to train with.

The guy who taught me throttled back on teaching and one of his best students met Kevin when he was travelling, they spoke about Wing Chun and realised they had something in common and Kevin trained some of the Jersey guys. One who is a member on here was over training with Kevin the other week.

I had just stopped training in the late 90's so never met Kevin, which is a shame as maybe I wouldnt have stopped, but no point on dwelling on the past

So when I got back into some training, I had heard so much about Kevin, it was natural for me to want to go to him as he knows the people I have trained with. I also pm'd Kamonguy for a chat too.

I just sent an email to the contact on the Kamon website and arranged it with him like that. Really easy, just gave some dates and we agreed on tomorrow.

It is one to one and he advised me to bring a video camera, which is pretty cool as alot of people wouldnt let you do that.

Right, off to bed as I have an early start!!

Fingers crossed the fog isnt too bad.

 

[dnovice]

Be like sponge grasshopper and absorb all knowledge will you. Yoda says.

 

[paulus]

It is one to one and he advised me to bring a video camera, which is pretty cool as alot of people wouldnt let you do that.

Now that is interesting. Are you going to make DVDs of the videa and post them to all your MT friends?

Good luck with the fog!

 

[KamonGuy2]

I have a private with Kevin Chan on Sunday

He is the best teacher I have ever had and everything he will teach you will be no nonsense - truly, ask him anything and he has an answer

Don't be afraid to ask questions
If you don't think a move works, don't dismiss it (it annoys him if you do that), but give it a bit of time and you will find that the move does work
Try and get him to do the one leg demo. He hasn't done it for years, but basically, he lets you grab him any way you want and manages to stay on one leg, no matter how you try to throw him. It's just freaky.
He is a very down to earth nice guy and you should have a fun time

Are you training at the Portsmouth class whilst you're down there? There is some real talent there, namely Alberto, Ken, Howard, Karl, Ivan and many more
Sometimes Sifu's brother Simon trains there as well and he is an extremely good fighter, but a very nice guy

If you have time, give me a bell and we can meet up and do some training. I'm not exactly in Kevin's league, but I can help drill into you what he will teach you

 

[bully]

I feel as though I have been run over

What a day, very intense with alot to take in...as expected really.

Wont go into loads of detail as I doubt its much different from what any of you would do in a private with your Sifus.

Punching - Planting and making every punch count. I could feel the difference. Wouldn't want to take a dig from him anytime soon!! The power he can generate is awesome. There is no secret etc and Kevin is a normal guy not some superhuman, he just knows how to get explosive power and understands the body mechanics/structure...and the years of practice probably help ;-)

Stance - Gripping the floor, having a strong core, like has been said many times on here. I thought my core was strong after working on it for my back....not strong enough. Structure is everything.

Footwork - mine is terrible, imagine a shop dummy and you would be about right. KC gave me some drills to practice, most stuff you guys do anyway. He said training with some boxers would help...there are a few guys here I know, so will have a chat. We done the toe to toe thing with KC wearing boxing gloves throwing punches and me not being allowed to move my feet, just duck/weave etc. Then after that added moving around with me trying to get better angles etc....he didnt hit me but he was just being nice ;-)
Going to continue practicing this with the missus, she cant believe her luck, being able to smack me in the face with no comebacks!!

Chi Sau - I am not good at all, but it has been 12 years. Kevin explained things, the importance of stick/hit etc, we practiced and he showed me traps etc. I just need to go and practice for a few years now.

Feeding techniques - The importance of randomness and pressure testing. Its not what you put up to stop the first attack, its what you do after. As long as something goes up you can work off that.

We worked on bridging too, the first form and applications, we talked about all sorts, the changes in WC, the importance of sparring.

KG, yep he done the one leg thing, no way could I get him down. I was only over for the day otherwise I would have tried to meet up with you. I will be coming again at the end of the summer I think, so will see then. In the meantime if work send me over again I will try and do an evening class where ever I am. Was in London last Friday, I should have stayed overnight and done a class.

Didnt do loads of video, but no way would I post it anywhere. The guy needs to make a living so I would say buy the official ones off the Kamon website. I also made some notes of what to practice.

All in all a great day which I want to do again after alot of practice. You guys should count yourselves lucky that you have classes and Sifus where you are. I do now have a training partner who has really good knowledge so things are looking up here.

If you get a chance to work with Kevin Chan then do it.

The scariest part of the day was the aborted first plane landing when we broke through the fog and saw buildings at a couple of hundred feet. The plane started climbing with the engines flat out:mrtoilet: Second time lucky we made the landing.

Cheers

A very tired, aching Bully.

 

[paulus]

Sounds like you had a great time.

I need to work on my fotwork too. Any chance you could tell us what those drills were?

Footwork - mine is terrible, imagine a shop dummy and you would be about right. KC gave me some drills to practice, most stuff you guys do anyway.

 

[KamonGuy2]

Didnt do loads of video, but no way would I post it anywhere. The guy needs to make a living so I would say buy the official ones off the Kamon website. I also made some notes of what to practice.

Bully,
Glad you had a good time - hope you softened him up for my private tomorrow!!
If you still have those vids, I'd love to see them. I don't think Kevin would begrudge you showing one or two drills in a kind of 'teaser' format.
You can't really learn much from a video anyway (otherwise I would have learnt all how to fight like Jet Li by now!)
Anyway, hope you recover soon!
KG

 

[dungeonworks]

Thats great! Be sure to tell us how it goes! If I'll be going to the UK again, my first stop would be Kevin Chans school too. Acctualy, I might do something like that during the summer. And I hear the exchange rate from euro to pound is basicly 1:1 this days so it would be a lot cheaper to go than a few years back. And if I'm ever in America I would probably go to an Augustine Fong or an Ali Rahim school.

Me too...I'd really like to train with Sifu Ali Rahim and Co. equally as well as Sifu Kevin Chan!

 

[KamonGuy2]

Me too...I'd really like to train with Sifu Ali Rahim and Co. equally as well as Sifu Kevin Chan!

I've never heard of Ali Rahim - does anyone have any links for him?
Augustine Fong is apparently very good - my friend used to be an instructor of his and he is pretty good

 

[dnovice]

Feeding techniques - The importance of randomness and pressure testing. Its not what you put up to stop the first attack, its what you do after. As long as something goes up you can work off that.

This alone is gold. This alone would have made your practice worthwhile. Sounds like you got some good training; i envy you.

Now grasshopper put videos up make Yoda see. Pretty please.

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

I've never heard of Ali Rahim - does anyone have any links for him?
Augustine Fong is apparently very good - my friend used to be an instructor of his and he is pretty good

Acctualy Ali Rahim used to be a member of this forum. And a very knowladgable on if I may add, but then he got banned becouse of a missunderstanding. Graychuan is a student of his. Here's his youtube chanell: http://www.youtube.com/user/alirahim1

Forgot to mention Gary Lam and Wan Kam Leung-this Wong Shun Leung guys are pretty awsome.

Thanks for the review bully, sounds like a cool training session!

 

[KamonGuy2]

Acctualy Ali Rahim used to be a member of this forum. And a very knowladgable on if I may add, but then he got banned becouse of a missunderstanding. Graychuan is a student of his. Here's his youtube chanell: http://www.youtube.com/user/alirahim1

Forgot to mention Gary Lam and Wan Kam Leung-this Wong Shun Leung guys are pretty awsome.

Thanks for the review bully, sounds like a cool training session!

He got banned? Oh no, why was that? I've been banned on other forums before. I got banned from the International Wing Chun (Jim Fung's) forums because I kept accidentally mentioning BJJ on there!

There's a Gary Lam seminar in the UK soon (keep meaning to look it up) and I trained with Wan Kam Leung - he is an extremely interesting wing chunner and very humble. I love his youtube clips

I've not seen much of Wong Shun Leung's stuff - does he have any schools in the UK?

Had my private with Kevin Chan and he said my forms were spot on, which almost mae me cry with happiness. Couldn't even get close to catching him in chi sao. The guy is an amazing talent

 

[chisauking]

Kamon guy: You say you have trained with sifu Wan Kam Leung. May I asked, what did you train in, and did you chisau \ gwohsau with him?

Also, you say you can't get close to kevin chan in chisau, but do you actually try to take his space and control him with full power, or is it like a tai chi session?

This isn't some sort of trick question. Just curious to see how you actually apply \ interpretate chisau, since you'd mention on quite a few occassions that you were a BIG guy.

 

[KamonGuy2]

Kamon guy: You say you have trained with sifu Wan Kam Leung. May I asked, what did you train in, and did you chisau \ gwohsau with him?

Also, you say you can't get close to kevin chan in chisau, but do you actually try to take his space and control him with full power, or is it like a tai chi session?

This isn't some sort of trick question. Just curious to see how you actually apply \ interpretate chisau, since you'd mention on quite a few occassions that you were a BIG guy.

Certainly, no problem

It was a seminar taken by Wan Kam Leung and organised through James Sinclair
It lasted a few hours and I got to touch hands with him. He is really quick but in a subtle way. ie, his hands almost teleport into new positions

As for Kevin Chan, basically he starts off nice and light helping you to work positions etc and then he says 'let's do free chi sao' and makes you feel like a little child!! His movement is so good that he just outpositions me everytime. We do chi sao numerous ways in Kamon (ie we try to learn all the different ways and then find a way that suits us)
For example, we have a senior level instructor Roy Fretwell who trains with us and who is like a rock. His gung lik is such that my arms ache after about two minutes of rolling! He trains his chi sao in a similar style to that of people under Ip Chun (ie good structure and little movement)

With Kevn, I can grab his arms and attempt to close space but he is always one step ahead. It is weird, as like you say, I'm three times his size, but that doesn't matter. It is similar to how a large boxer would fight a small boxer. The small boxer would outpace the big boxer every time. Sure the big guy can hit hard, but if he can't catch him, he can't hit him!!!

 

[chisauking]

I was going to see sibak Wan Kam Leung at the seminar, but I'd injured myself badly the week before, so I'd decided it was best I stay away. If I'd attended, I wouldn't have been able to resist chisauing with all the people, and therefore risk injuring myself further.

Sifu Wan pocess genuine wing chun skills, and people stepping up to chisau \ gwohsau with him would have a measure of their own skills. Like all the outstanding wing chun sifus, he's willing to put his reputation on the line by chisauing with anybody and everybody.

Being such a BIG guy, you would have problems finding a good training partner. Most people that train with you would have to use indirect wing chun -- using evasive actions -- rather than face you head on. It's good for your smaller partner, but it makes it difficult for you to train your suong-ma structure. If you ever get the chance to chisau \ gwohsau with a good big guy, don't miss it. It's a different experience.

Any way, it's good that you are willing to meet other wing chun practitioners and chisau with them. I meet a lot of big wing chun guys since I frequently visit Germany with Gary (a lot of the German guys are BIG), so I already have a good idea in my mind how you would chisau. Now that you've explain yourself a little, I have a clearer picture.

I don't want to digress Bully's thread too much, so I will leave it here.

 

[KamonGuy2]

I was going to see sibak Wan Kam Leung at the seminar, but I'd injured myself badly the week before, so I'd decided it was best I stay away. If I'd attended, I wouldn't have been able to resist chisauing with all the people, and therefore risk injuring myself further..

You don't have to chi sao hard. Chi sao should be fun and humble. Who cares who hits who? Like I say to my students, when I chi sao or spar at class, I don't really remember if someone dominated or if I dominated - I'm more concerned with learning something
Kevin Chan helps you to get hits in - he isn't bothered if you get a lucky shot in, but obviously if I was catching him repeatedly then sure he would need to reassess his positions. But I wouldn't think Kevin Chan was crap.
I didn't get anywhere close and that said more about my own training and what I have to do

Sifu Wan pocess genuine wing chun skills, and people stepping up to chisau \ gwohsau with him would have a measure of their own skills. Like all the outstanding wing chun sifus, he's willing to put his reputation on the line by chisauing with anybody and everybody..

His reputation would never be on the line if he chi sao'd with me and I caught him. Who cares? The guy has 40 years or so experience in wing chun and I would be more interested in learning than trying to catch him out. I think many sifus out there are worried to chi sao or spar because they think that if they get caught they will be dismissed. It's sad to see that. Anyone is welcome down after my class to play and spar if it is done with pure intentions. It is like a game of tage you play as a kid. Do you remember who tagged who? I played numerous games of rugby when I was younger and I honestly can't remember who won which game

Being such a BIG guy, you would have problems finding a good training partner. Most people that train with you would have to use indirect wing chun -- using evasive actions -- rather than face you head on. It's good for your smaller partner, but it makes it difficult for you to train your suong-ma structure. If you ever get the chance to chisau \ gwohsau with a good big guy, don't miss it. It's a different experience..

Thanks in part to Kamon having massive guys - http://www.kamonwingchun.com/News.aspx#28
I can get good wing chun done when I train.

I'd love to chi sao with someone like Sammo Hung or Chow Yun Fat who are a little bigger than the average kung fu guy and considerably talented

Hopefully when I go to Hong kong this year I'll get to go with a whole range of guys

Any way, it's good that you are willing to meet other wing chun practitioners and chisau with them. I meet a lot of big wing chun guys since I frequently visit Germany with Gary (a lot of the German guys are BIG), so I already have a good idea in my mind how you would chisau. Now that you've explain yourself a little, I have a clearer picture.

I'm actually very light for my size. I have a long way to go with regards to chi sao, but it is only one part of my training and I would rather work on realistic techniques as the threat is always out there (only last week my mate got 'done over' in broad daylight)

 

[chisauking]

kamon guy:You don't have to chi sao hard. Chi sao should be fun and humble. Who cares who hits who? Like I say to my students, when I chi sao or spar at class, I don't really remember if someone dominated or if I dominated - I'm more concerned with learning something
Kevin Chan helps you to get hits in - he isn't bothered if you get a lucky shot in, but obviously if I was catching him repeatedly then sure he would need to reassess his positions. But I wouldn't think Kevin Chan was crap.
I didn't get anywhere close and that said more about my own training and what I have to do

csk: No one said you had to chisau hard, but that is part of the equation. Also, if you don't care and don't remember the results of the session, what are you learning? As far as who cares who hits who, I think the teacher, for one, would.

His reputation would never be on the line if he chi sao'd with me and I caught him. Who cares? The guy has 40 years or so experience in wing chun and I would be more interested in learning than trying to catch him out. I think many sifus out there are worried to chi sao or spar because they think that if they get caught they will be dismissed. It's sad to see that. Anyone is welcome down after my class to play and spar if it is done with pure intentions. It is like a game of tage you play as a kid. Do you remember who tagged who? I played numerous games of rugby when I was younger and I honestly can't remember who won which game

csk: Well, he's not only chisauing with you, is he? If a sifu has over 40-years' experience, and he looks bad in chisau \ gwohsau with shorter term students, off course it reflects badly on him. In other words, he's putting his reputation on the line. If you purport to teach boxing, and any tom, dick or harry can hit you easy, it doesn't look good on you, does it? By comparing good chisau with tag, I seriously question your comprehension of chisau. Good chisau has power, structure, hitting, control of opponent's balance, etc., etc. It's nothing like tag, as you say. Tag is when you touch your opponent, and he touches you. Poor analogy. Even still, I would be concerned if my opponent could tag me at will, and I can't 'tag' them. If I were to lose at any game, I would remember it, because I try to learn from my mistakes. I try to analyse what I had done to let my opponent in.

I'd love to chi sao with someone like Sammo Hung or Chow Yun Fat who are a little bigger than the average kung fu guy and considerably talented

csk: since neither summo or chow yun fat actually practice wing chun, I think your wish is pretty difficult, don't you think?

Hopefully when I go to Hong kong this year I'll get to go with a whole range of guys

csk: Sure you would, but don't expect anyone near your size.

I'm actually very light for my size. I have a long way to go with regards to chi sao, but it is only one part of my training and I would rather work on realistic techniques as the threat is always out there (only last week my mate got 'done over' in broad daylight)

csk: The way I read this (above) is you feel chisau \ gwohsau isn't realistic as what you prefer to train in. Well, all techniques contained within chisau is as realistic as the practitioner is capable of applying. Off course, it's far easier just to kick \ box.

It's quite clear our understanding of chisau is worlds apart, but I'm sure with your experience of wing chun from a master, it's very obvious you are right.

I bow to your knowledge & experience, my big friend.