To the detractors of Pyung Ahn Sam Dan...

[SahBumNimRush]

I personally love Pyung Ahn Ee Dan of all the Pyung Ahn Hyungs. That being said, I do truly enjoy Pyung Ahn Sam Dan as well. It is true that it is incredibly difficult to enjoy practicing something that has no meaning to you, or atleast a meaning that doesn't make sense. Boonhae/Bunkai are so readily accessible these days, even if your organization does not practice them you should be able to find some guidance on them.

 

[Makalakumu]

Old thread, but could someone explain to me why Korean stylists have the jump at the end? In between the combination elbow and hook punch to the rear on left and then right sides?

The move at the end of the kata can be a number of things. One of them is a throw called uki otoshi - the floating body drop. You can do this throw with the same motions you use in the kata, minus the jump. However, if you do jump into this throw and you have good kazushi, you will throw your uke like a trebuchet. I've experimented with this some, but I get scared for uke's safety when uke is airborne for more then six feet.

It's not a practical technique because the timing and kazushi have to be spot on. So, I tell my students to practice the kata with a jump, but know that the application doesn't require it.

 

[Tez3]

The move at the end of the kata can be a number of things. One of them is a throw called uki otoshi - the floating body drop. You can do this throw with the same motions you use in the kata, minus the jump. However, if you do jump into this throw and you have good kazushi, you will throw your uke like a trebuchet. I've experimented with this some, but I get scared for uke's safety when uke is airborne for more then six feet.

It's not a practical technique because the timing and kazushi have to be spot on. So, I tell my students to practice the kata with a jump, but know that the application doesn't require it.

I knew about the throw but haven't seen it in relation to the jump, I shall have to have a look at that, perhaps pick a small child, a crash mat and experiment!

 

[Makalakumu]

I knew about the throw but haven't seen it in relation to the jump, I shall have to have a look at that, perhaps pick a small child, a crash mat and experiment!

Once you get a good grip and bring your uke over his toes, the key is to whip around as fast as you can and attempt to pivot in the air. You will actually end up behind uke, kneeling on the leg you whipped around. Be careful to keep your posture up right and your hands up in the air, or you'll plant uke into the mat like an asteroid.

Find the biggest guy you can that can take falls and give it a try. The bigger the better. This technique works better on taller and heavier opponents.

 

[Master Jay S. Penfil]

It is interesting to me when people look at a giver form and judge it by it's looks rather then taking the time to learn what it was intended to teach.

The same holds true for Naihanchi Chodan (Shodan). The form doesn't look like much at first view, but there are reasons that Choki Motobu once said; if you can only learn "ONE" form in your lifetime, let it be Naihanchi Shodan.

Pyong Ahn Somdan has G R E A T bunkai. The interceptions and locks are all through the form. I have a new student that is a professional film maker. We are now disk series on Bunkai, Henka and Oyo.

As soon as it is complete (some time in 2011) I will make it available to everyone...

 

[dancingalone]

It is interesting to me when people look at a giver form and judge it by it's looks rather then taking the time to learn what it was intended to teach.

Frankly this is natural behavior. We all look at things through the lens of our prior experiences. I have learned and practiced versions of Pinan Sandan that do not have the jump in place and from that perspective, to be blunt, it's an ugly, unaesthetic alteration.

If some teach a useful martial application to it, I can accept that. I did ask for an explanation after all. Don't make didactic assumptions based on postings on a forum though. That would be interesting as well considering the anonymous nature of the internet.

 

[Master Jay S. Penfil]

Frankly this is natural behavior. We all look at things through the lens of our prior experiences. I have learned and practiced versions of Pinan Sandan that do not have the jump in place and from that perspective, to be blunt, it's an ugly, unaesthetic alteration.

If some teach a useful martial application to it, I can accept that. I did ask for an explanation after all. Don't make didactic assumptions based on postings on a forum though. That would be interesting as well considering the anonymous nature of the internet.

One of my instructors told us that we should jump at least 5 feet to the right at the end of the form and then execute the elbow. I asked why??? He said that we had to jump over a body and strike a guy that was going to grab us from behind...

Such explanations were made by thousands of instructors who never questioned those who taught them. I DO NOT teach the jump, as I was taught later by an instructor with a serious grasp of Bunkai that this technique was, as he had learned it, a throw. When he demonstrated the complete movement, from the punch to the rotation of the body to the "perceived" elbow and punch it made perfect sense... I have not used the jump since.

We have also removed the jump from Pyong Ahn Ohdan as well for the same reason. It was not there in the original kata as taught in Okinawa because it was intended to be a throw and a choke, NOT an "X" block to a front kick that was being thrown to a location that the attacker thought you might be when you landed from the jump...

 

[MBuzzy]

One of our big obstacles here, however, is the Koreans themselves. My Korean instructor gave me the same explanation. Which just goes to show, just because someone was born in Korea, it does not automatically make them an expert.

 

[Makalakumu]

One of our big obstacles here, however, is the Koreans themselves. My Korean instructor gave me the same explanation. Which just goes to show, just because someone was born in Korea, it does not automatically make them an expert.

Exactly. Which is why I think we need to get as many of us as possible to move forward with courage and confidence. Our seniors may frown on us at first, but we need to have faith that they'll eventually come around.

 

[Makalakumu]

One of my instructors told us that we should jump at least 5 feet to the right at the end of the form and then execute the elbow. I asked why??? He said that we had to jump over a body and strike a guy that was going to grab us from behind...

Such explanations were made by thousands of instructors who never questioned those who taught them. I DO NOT teach the jump, as I was taught later by an instructor with a serious grasp of Bunkai that this technique was, as he had learned it, a throw. When he demonstrated the complete movement, from the punch to the rotation of the body to the "perceived" elbow and punch it made perfect sense... I have not used the jump since.

We have also removed the jump from Pyong Ahn Ohdan as well for the same reason. It was not there in the original kata as taught in Okinawa because it was intended to be a throw and a choke, NOT an "X" block to a front kick that was being thrown to a location that the attacker thought you might be when you landed from the jump...

I will show both versions of pyung ahn o dan and let students decide. The version without the jump is the throw and the choke that you indicated. The version with the jump is a throw and uke stomp, followed by a quick arm bar. Both of these are legitimate self defense techniques.

Anyway, that's why it's so important to understand the nuances of these hyungs.

Regarding the jump in Pyung ahn sam dan, I hardly ever perform it anymore. This throw doesn't require it unless you want to catapult uke into outer space.

 

[195]

When I learned the form I loved it. I learned the spear hand as a strike to the solar plexus then as your right hand moves across your face (think of this as blocking a left side forward jab) and as it reaches for your lower back your arm actually traps his in an arm bar. When you spin into the hammerfist you essentially break his arm and strike your next opponent. Just another outlook on the motion.