To Engage Or Not To Engage..That Is The Question.

[MJS]

Many times, when people know that we train in the arts, the assumption is that it some how turns us into super men and women. They assume that because of our training, we will always come out on top of a situation and that whenever we're faced with something, we will always fight for our beliefs, and never comply with someone trying to harm us.

I'm interested in hearing everyones views on this. What do you do? Do you always engage with the person trying to harm you, carjack you or rob you, or do you assess the situation and base your response accordingly?

Mike

 

[Rich Parsons]

Many times, when people know that we train in the arts, the assumption is that it some how turns us into super men and women. They assume that because of our training, we will always come out on top of a situation and that whenever we're faced with something, we will always fight for our beliefs, and never comply with someone trying to harm us.

I'm interested in hearing everyones views on this. What do you do? Do you always engage with the person trying to harm you, carjack you or rob you, or do you assess the situation and base your response accordingly?

Mike

Years ago while at work in an engineering office, I was standing by a pillar wiht cable behind me on the floor near a cube wall. This guy just turns and shoves me back. I go to slide the foot back for balance and trip. I fall back and slap the floor and wall and no one including me was hurt. the guy was surprised. He asked why I did not use my "KUNG FU". I told him I did. Had the option of grabbing him and spinning and using him for the pillow. I had the option of grabbing him and spinning towards the pillar and ripping his head off. I had the option of grabbing him and pulling him down on top of me, where I might get hurt, and in the other two he would have got hurt. Instead I chosse to use my skills with no contact and no one got hurt.

 

[Flying Crane]

I always look for the escape route. I keep talking and try to defuse the situation. I keep walking and see if they lose interest. If need be, I run like hell, esp. when the punk has 5 or 6 buddies tagging along. You never know who's carrying a knife or gun or something, and all it takes is a moment for your life to be drastically altered or over. It ain't worth it. I'll fight if I really have no other choice, like if I'm cornered or if I have a companion who may not be able to run like I can. But if any other reasonable solution presents itself, I'll take it, even if it means showing the quality of my nike-jutsu.

 

[terryl965]

I can tell you that it is always better to not engage when all is possible.

 

[thardey]

Many times, when people know that we train in the arts, the assumption is that it some how turns us into super men and women. They assume that because of our training, we will always come out on top of a situation and that whenever we're faced with something, we will always fight for our beliefs, and never comply with someone trying to harm us.

It actually had the opposite effect on me. Before I started martial arts, I assumed you got in a fist fight, and you came out with some good bruises, a black eye, and maybe a broken nose. Then I started realizing how scary powerful this stuff can be, and my thought was. "Geez, I never knew this stuff existed - who else out there knows this?"

It made me more careful, because I realized that *anybody* could seriously hurt me, or send me to the emergency room real quick, with injuries I would feel for the rest of my life.

 

[Kacey]

What do you do? Do you always engage with the person trying to harm you, carjack you or rob you, or do you assess the situation and base your response accordingly?

I get questions about this all the time - somehow, being a female martial artist seems to increase this type of assumption; one of my neighbors once asked what I would do if 6 men, armed with guns, were coming at me from 6 directions, and seemed quite disappointed when I said I would give them whatever they wanted, because being shot at point-blank range wasn't in my life plans. :idunno:

First, I attempt to avoid situations in which self-defense is necessary - and my understanding and awareness of such situations has increased amazingly since I started training. If I can't avoid, then I attempt to minimize - talk my way out, for example. If I can't do that... RUN! Only if those options don't work would I do anything else... but so far, I've managed to not go past the "talking my way out" stage (that's only happened once), and I intend to keep it that way.

If someone wants something I own - they can have it; things can be replaced. If someone wants to kill me, or someone I care for... then it's no holds barred, better watch out. But I much prefer avoidance.

 

[Flying Crane]

...one of my neighbors once asked what I would do if 6 men, armed with guns, were coming at me from 6 directions, and seemed quite disappointed when I said I would give them whatever they wanted, because being shot at point-blank range wasn't in my life plans. :idunno:

actually, if you drop to the ground at precisely the moment they open fire, they just might all kill each other in the crossfire and you get to go home that day...

 

[Kacey]

actually, if you drop to the ground at precisely the moment they open fire, they just might all kill each other in the crossfire and you get to go home that day...

Yeah, well... that fits right in with my preferred method of avoidance!

 

[MA-Caver]

I, in a heartbeat; assess the situation and base my response accordingly. Nuff said.

 

[morph4me]

Many times, when people know that we train in the arts, the assumption is that it some how turns us into super men and women. They assume that because of our training, we will always come out on top of a situation and that whenever we're faced with something, we will always fight for our beliefs, and never comply with someone trying to harm us.

I'm interested in hearing everyones views on this. What do you do? Do you always engage with the person trying to harm you, carjack you or rob you, or do you assess the situation and base your response accordingly?

Mike

I would have to assess the situation, if someone was trying to carjack or rob me, I'd like to think that I would give them my car or whatever they wanted,but I'm not always as smart as I should be. If they were trying to harm me, I have nothing to lose by fighting back.

 

[Drac]

Many times, when people know that we train in the arts, the assumption is that it some how turns us into super men and women. They assume that because of our training, we will always come out on top of a situation and that whenever we're faced with something, we will always fight for our beliefs, and never comply with someone trying to harm us. Mike

Its as bad as the opposite opinion that many have of MA practioneers, that its all BS... Seems they have encountered one of the *******s of MA who announced to all within earshot ( ususlly cops or bouncers) "Not to screw with them because they are a "BLACK BELT"... This type usually goes down in about 5 seconds, thus adding to the BS myth...

 

[kidswarrior]

Think I'm agreeing with virtually everyone above in saying, I avoid a confrontation if at all possible. Keep walking and hope they lose interest, as FC said; or if contact is accidentally made (as in the You tube segment MJS posted recently), apologize and keep walking (they've yet to chase me to fight--too much work, I think), or if there is a group, or a couple or three over sized gents of OG appearance (I assume prison time on their resume), I'll just smile and say, Well, you guys could easily kick my *** if you wanted to (which I don't let myself actually believe for a second, because as one of my Grand Masters used to say, Losing is not an option). But I'm old, so what would that prove? Now if you need a few bucks for gas money or a beer, hey I've been there myself, and I'd be glad to spot you a ten. Or, if you need to make a call, I've got my phone here. You're welcome to use it. It's amazing how often I've defused a tense situation just by taking this tack--so far, anyway.

 

[kidswarrior]

actually, if you drop to the ground at precisely the moment they open fire, they just might all kill each other in the crossfire and you get to go home that day...

I know with your wit this is probably tongue in cheek, but this actually happened to a local gang here about 7-8 years ago. They stood in a semicircle with the 'victim' in the center and opened fire. Killed two of their own. Hey when a grown man (I mean 30+) can't think of any other option as a career choice than to be a low-level gangster, you're usually dealing with room temp IQ's. :lfao:

Oh, and the best part? PD pulled them over on the drive home with the two bodies of their buddies in the car. :toilclaw:

 

[Gordon Nore]

actually, if you drop to the ground at precisely the moment they open fire, they just might all kill each other in the crossfire and you get to go home that day...

 

[qi-tah]

Many times, when people know that we train in the arts, the assumption is that it some how turns us into super men and women. They assume that because of our training, we will always come out on top of a situation and that whenever we're faced with something, we will always fight for our beliefs, and never comply with someone trying to harm us.

Yeah, but that is generally the most moronic and unthinking response in a continuum. It's sort of the "movie mentality" of the martial arts. I try to tune that kind of crap out.

I'm interested in hearing everyones views on this. What do you do? Do you always engage with the person trying to harm you, carjack you or rob you, or do you assess the situation and base your response accordingly?

Mike

As a smaller than average woman, i cannot rely on physical confrontation as a reliable means of conflict resoloution. I *can* win a fight if it comes to that (indeed i must believe this), but that's my final contingency plan. Initially, i'll be looking for ways to defuse, escape or equalise the situation rather than physically engage.

 

[jks9199]

For me, I don't always have the option of walking away. In fact, I very seldom have the option of walking away...

It's simple. I find that the confidence and bearing of 20+ years training, and testing for real, in my martial art has a strong deterrent effect. There's a difference in bearing and attitude and confidence; I don't know a way to describe it. Gordon Dickson wrote a Dorsai short story about it; I think it was called "Man of War." There's a scene in it where a Dorsai commander is confronted by a bunch of underworld toughs; there's not a punch throne, as I recall, but the toughs go away with their tales between their legs. It's what gives rise to a military vet's 1000 yard stare... It's not something that's limited to cops or soldiers -- but it's definitely something that sets the people with it apart from the mass of society.

That... And an absolute bug-**** nuts leer when confronted in some situations... Seems to keep the people I deal with from getting too froggy on me!

 

[ejaazi]

Many times, when people know that we train in the arts, the assumption is that it some how turns us into super men and women. They assume that because of our training, we will always come out on top of a situation and that whenever we're faced with something, we will always fight for our beliefs, and never comply with someone trying to harm us.

I'm interested in hearing everyones views on this. What do you do? Do you always engage with the person trying to harm you, carjack you or rob you, or do you assess the situation and base your response accordingly?

Mike

I try to assess the situation first, if I have the time, and think about what the consequences might be. I try to keep my martial arts training a secret, for fear that people may want to "try" me and get hurt. I work and drive around in a very violent city, where if I was attacked, I would have to try and disable the person, and that is a situation I would rather avoid.

 

[aplonis]

Unless forced to it I choose not to unnecessarily complicate my day, week or month.

Picture yourself an hour hence re-answering the same questions again and again to memory-deficient police. Picture yourself a day hence explaining to your boss how it is you missed a day's work. Picture yourself a month hence writing a really big check to your lawyer.

 

[Drac]

For me, I don't always have the option of walking away. In fact, I very seldom have the option of walking away.

I hear ya on that one.. Most citizens don't realize that we DO NOT have that option...

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Every situation will have to be assessed and handled differently on the spot because each situation is unique as well as every opponent is unique. Gut feeling's, instinct will have to also play a role in deciding to engage or not. Simply put if I feel that I can get away without engaging I will do so including giving someone my wallet, car or any property. However, if I feel that this individual or individual's is going to harm my life or my loved ones then engagement will be necessary and ruthless violence probably is forthcoming.

As to what jks9199 wrote most of the time all that is needed is a stare and people do sence when they come across someone who has been there before.