TKD love it or hate it

[Shu2jack]

Just taking the curriculum into consideration, TKD is on par (perhaps greater since we have a wider range of kicking techniques, albeit not really street-effective) with the other striking arts. We have jabs, crosses, uppercuts, knees, elbows, palm heels, etc. just like everyone else. The difference is that most instructors tend to focus on the kicks due to competition. Some schools focus more on hand techniques because of self-defense and the fact that the weather in a region does not permit kicking a lot of the time on the street.

So is TKD street effective? If you take away the "competition/development as a person" mind-set and use a "I am training to destroy someone" mind-set and focus on techniques that are more suited for the task it is.

As for Bruce Lee, he was a very talented man, but not flawless. I read some of his books and some of the self-defenses he showed would probably get a lot of people killed. Perhaps he could pull it off due to his skill, but I would never recommend people try some of the stuff he showed. Other self-defense things he showed were solid and insightful. As for forms, I think he misunderstood the purpose of forms. They were not designed to teach one how to fight. They were designed to mentally train someone, give them an idea on how techniques can be used by studying a form (thus giving a deeper understanding of the art), and as a way to practice techniques alone while helping one grow in other areas while practicing those techniques.

 

[ipscshooter]

Ok, I'll take back some of what I said I did a grading today and yes I can see in a way how TKD can be effective, but thats only sparring!

"Only sparring"... I'm not sure about where you've trained, but at my school, sparring, particularly among higher belts (red and black), is full contact and occasionally quite painful. During my blackbelt exam I was knocked down by a left hook punch to the ear... and, I broke the guy's rib with a roundhouse kick.

And TKD doesn't focus enough of elbows, knees and punches, BUT that maybe because its a kicking art!

In TKD, there are as many strikes and blocks using the hands as there are using the feet. It's not just a kicking art.There are also a good number of traps/locks/takedowns. I haven't seen much in the way of grappling techniques yet, but then, I'm only a 1st dan.

 

[terryl965]

I would love to meet some of the so called MA that think TKD is useless, perhaps you only been involve in the sport of TKD. TKD is more then a sport, find the proper school and teacher and you will find out.... God Bless America

 

[Corporal Hicks]

I would love to meet some of the so called MA that think TKD is useless, perhaps you only been involve in the sport of TKD. TKD is more then a sport, find the proper school and teacher and you will find out.... God Bless America

TKD isn't useless, but face this, look at TKD versus Wing Chung in a self defence situation, dont fool yourselves into thinking that TKD is effective at close range, and I mean close range because in most cases its not, I had my first Wing Chung lesson yesterday and its so much more effective.

Also there isn't much contact in TKD, I didn't like contact that much when I first started and the thought of that put fear into me so I chose TKD which has realitive contact and the worse I've seen so far is bleeding and broken noses, but in reality YOUR GOING TO GET HURT in a street fight and No Namby Pamby light or hard (with protection) touch sparring is going to get you closer to the truth. Let me say again compared to other MA TKD isn't that good in a close quators self defence situation.

Ok, now let me say how many of you have ACTUALLY been in self defence situation and I dont want any made up crap coming out of your mouths either. TKD is good for a street fight where there is space and you are in a good range of your opponent, and I would use it but backed up against the wall with no kicking room..........

Or maybe I've got a poor instructor (which I've been suspecting for a while thats why I'm doing Wing Chung) so if somebody can give me good situations where it worked, I will take back everything I have said.

Regards

 

[Disco]

I'll be polite. Not so much a poor instructor as a not informed instructor. You most likely were being taught by someone who only had knowledge of the sport variation of TKD. Old school TKD covers all the ranges. I'm glad that the wing chung is helping.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

I'll be polite. Not so much a poor instructor as a not informed instructor. You most likely were being taught by someone who only had knowledge of the sport variation of TKD. Old school TKD covers all the ranges. I'm glad that the wing chung is helping.

Thanks, I just passed my grading 2day, I'm now a blue belt (yaye). As for old school tkd, I'm with a recent branch just broken off from the TAGB called P.U.M.A this wont be of any revelance to people who are not in Britain, but it might be that we are a Uniforcation of Martial Arts.

 

[Marginal]

TKD isn't useless, but face this, look at TKD versus Wing Chung in a self defence situation, dont fool yourselves into thinking that TKD is effective at close range, and I mean close range because in most cases its not, I had my first Wing Chung lesson yesterday and its so much more effective.

Kicking does not equal TKD.

Also there isn't much contact in TKD,

That's largely untrue.

Let me say again compared to other MA TKD isn't that good in a close quators self defence situation.

Because TKD is only kicking and point sparring? Still not sure why you think your experience automatically translates to all TKD experiences the world over.

Ok, now let me say how many of you have ACTUALLY been in self defence situation and I dont want any made up crap coming out of your mouths either.

My old TKD instructor stopped one fight pretty much before it started by breaking a guy's nose after he dodged a sloppy roundhouse punch and counterpunched. The guy went down, and was out of the fight.

TKD is good for a street fight where there is space and you are in a good range of your opponent, and I would use it but backed up against the wall with no kicking room..........

I'd still use TKD in that situation. Punching, knees, elbows, joint locks etc all fall under that umbrella. There are plenty of options in TKD in a CQ situation regardless of whether or not you believe this is possible or true.

so if somebody can give me good situations where it worked, I will take back everything I have said.

I somehow doubt that'll ever happen.

 

[MichiganTKD]

I'd have to agree with Marginal. TKD in close is just as effective as any other style, maybe more so. If all you know of Tae Kwon Do is tournament sparring and point fighting, you have no idea how effective a martial art and fighting style TKD really is. TKD is designed to use every part of the body to maximum effect. The only reason why we don't in free fighting is so we don't seriously injure or kill our classmates. Believe me, TKD is MUCH more than what the tournaments suggest. It is effective at a distance (kicking), at arm's reach (punching/striking), and in close (elbow, knee, wrist, head, sweeping).

 

[Marginal]

Just to qualify my comments a little, I will say this... I don't beleive TKD is a complete MA. (Not really sure if such a beast truly exists at all) I do beleive that there's obviously more to it than just kicking and point sparring however. I also know it's not useless in CQ because I know there's more than kicking to be done in those situations, and I know this due to training in TKD.

But then, I won't even try to say this is true of all TKD because it's not. TKD comes in a lot of flavors and it's pointless to say "TKD is X" becasue your perceptions and experiences are gonna differ from the next guy's.

 

[DragonFooter]

Why don't some people have patience and tolerance and pratice taekwon-do until master level(5th/6th dan)? Do they know what (old school) taekwon-do has to offer wholly? Do they know that 1st dan black belt is only the begining of their REAL training?
By master level if u say taekwon-do is ineffective and useless in self defense situations go ahead and join other MAs. By then u'll see something's useless in their programme!
If you give up early in any MA i doubt u'll ever see it's true effectiveness.
IMHO, in self defense situations the best option is to run or evade the situation altogether unless u are forced to protect yourself or your loved ones!
Therefore carrying a pepper sray is even more effective than any MA haha !
Backed by a wall? It's better than to be surrounded by all sides i think! Got that tip from my master's experience heheh . Use your smarts always and keep it swift and simple (KISS).
Self defense situations means everything goes! It's ugly and never forgives one who try to play the 'gentleman' in a fight. So go for the vital points, i.e. eyes, groin, kidneys, adam's apple, armpits (heheh) and knees even though they seemed ungentlemanly.

 

[ShaolinWolf]

I agree...I myself say I want to know more about what happens if you get to the ground, but I'm happy with where I am in TKD. Once you get up to about red/black level, you learn hosinsul that is really effective, joint dislocations, busted limbs, broken bones, etc. People say TKD is nothing more than a sport, but It is in fact a VERY brutal MA. The reason people say that stuff is because you build the basics until you get to the red/black level. Yes, alot of the stuff may seem funny and all for the self-defense, but it gets you ready and used to the self defense that's in Black belt and above.

Like I said, I want to know more grappling because I want more complete hosinsul, but in no way is TKD a weak art when it comes to self defense. Almost any practitioner of an art can learn it to the point where it all becomes effective like other MAs. (ok, I said almost every art, not the Mcdojo's...No matter how hard you try...yeah...LOL)

 

[superdave]

If I could find a REAL Tae Kwon Do school in my neighborhood or the surrounding area, I would join in a flash. But, all I have in my area are the McDojo type schools loaded with 7 year old 2nd Dans, concentrating on point sparring, and TOTALLY VOID OF SELF DEFENSE.

I have watched many different classes and have visited many different schools looking for something new to learn and in every single school it was the same thing, students of all levels sparring with their hands hanging down by their sides because they knew that punching was not allowed to their head. The kicking aspect was intresting to watch and some took much more atheltic ability than I possess, but it was not practical. I did not see one joint lock, throw or any type of hand or arm contact, unless it was used to block.
This is fine in a TKD tournament, but in the really real world this could get you seriously injured.

Please don't take this as a slam of TKD, it is not meant to be. This is just I have witnessed in MY area. As always your mileage may vary.

 

[terryl965]

SuperDave What part of the country maybe we can help direct you in the right direction... God Bless America

 

[DragonFooter]

If there is so many Mcdojangs around your area...well i'm surprised and sad for you. In Malaysia almost everywhere is WTF but their masters are previously ITF instructors. But some who prefered to keep the purity of the art but don't want to be afflicted with communists(north korea) joined the GTF by park jung tae which i think has no difference from ITF techniques and training!!
All in all if all u got is Mcdojangs...join another MA dude ..juz make sure they aren't McDojos or ninja wannabes LOL

 

[Corporal Hicks]

Excuse me for being unknownledgeable whats a McDojo? Dont know this terminally in Britian.


I've read some good replies, and I thank you guys (and gals maybe) you've changed my view.

 

[DragonFooter]

I'd like to clarify something here. WTF in my opinion is in no way a McDojang
It's just they emphasize heavily on the competion and sparring mindsets.They have vast knowledge on offensive/counteroffensive tactics and manuvers. I know becoz my school cross trained with em.They do have forms and hosinsul but only a handful of schools give emphasis on it.
My take on them? It's more like a sparring camp with no hands allowed...

IMO McDojang(Korean)/McDojo(Japanese) are martial art schools with no quality control! They either promote a student as fast as the cash comes in or worse, promoted by an unqualified instructor. There are cases of self claimed masters/grandmasters, so beware!!!

 

[terryl965]

I'd like to clarify something here. WTF in my opinion is in no way a McDojang
It's just they emphasize heavily on the competion and sparring mindsets.They have vast knowledge on offensive/counteroffensive tactics and manuvers. I know becoz my school cross trained with em.They do have forms and hosinsul but only a handful of schools give emphasis on it.
My take on them? It's more like a sparring camp with no hands allowed...

IMO McDojang(Korean)/McDojo(Japanese) are martial art schools with no quality control! They either promote a student as fast as the cash comes in or worse, promoted by an unqualified instructor. There are cases of self claimed masters/grandmasters, so beware!!!

Dragon Footer you are right on the money with MC Dojo's they promote way to early and proclaimed themself all mighty... God Bless America

 

[LIONHEART]

Hey there everyone Im new on the site and fairly new to tkd, however I'm not new to martial arts in general I have experienced about 12 different styles of fighting from purely striking such as boxing to ju jitsu, As a general comment and another reply to Corporal Hicks(sorry man had to reply coz you asked),

I cannot say that taekwon do is the best or most street effective art I have done but it definately is as good if not better than most of the others, here in south africa we dont have the privelage of training with masters or grand masters, my school is one of the best in the country and my boosabum is only going for 4th dan this year and the other is going for third(should also be for 4th) yet we train hard and so are one of the best schools in the country. however due to the nature and very real danger of having to defend yourself here, we have adapted to be as tough as possible, all training is full contact with minimum protection and no padding,we do not start our locks and thros groundwork and grappling at black belt but rather at white belt from the very start which is better in fact.

as far as street effectiveness goes I have seen people get their asses wooped and others beat down 5 or 6 guys at once, street effectiveness does not only rely on the art but the person doing it and the people you are fighting, its the street be ready for anything! as far as your praise of ju jitsu as a street art, you could not be more wrong I mean no disrespect to ju jitsu as an art i find it fantastic but its a sport as are ufc's there are to many rules which dont make it like street fighting! in the street you DO NOT want to be grappling a person on the floor of a club with people obstacles broken glass bottles glasses etc etc around let alone people do not fight 1 on 1 any more so while you are attempting to armbar your opponent his 5 friends are applying foot to face, and kicking you while you are down, IT IS important to know how to fight on the ground but dont think it will save you IT WONT from experience.

Bruce Lee was incredible and far ahead of his time he should be credited with revolutionising many many things about the martial arts but like people arts evolve! for pure street fighting I recommend not wing chun(i have done this before as well) but rather Israeli Krav M'ga, or the filipino arts like Eskrima or Amok.

remember the art you train in is only part of its effectiveness anyart can save you or be successful if u put your body and soul into it all of it its about how hard you train not only who you train with and where you train!!
I hope I could have been some help, yours in taekwon do LIONHEART.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Good points.

Any art is only as effective as the person who practices it. I know many people in my organization who probably would not do well in a street encounter, but practicing makes them happy. On the other hand, I know people, ones I came up with, who have used Tae Kwon Do effectively on the street.
As far as grappling, I tend to concur. It's not that I believe grappling is ineffective, it's that when you have 5 people attacking you, grappling one on one is probably not the best way to go. Aside from rolling around in who knows what outside, while you're grappling with an attacker, he may have a knife or gun. Aside from the fact that as you're rolling around, 3 of his friends are stomping on you.
Our Grandmaster told us many times that Tae Kwon Do is designed to be used against bigger guys and 3-4 on one. We've had testings where one BB had to fight 2-3 people at once. I always felt sorry for the attackers. They usually ended up getting the crap beat out of them. Why? Because one on one is free fighting (unless one of you decides to up the ante). Three on one is self defense. Your mind changes, and it is very easy for someone to get hurt in the process. same with weapon defense. I've seen people get hurt practicing knife defense because the people on defense defended too hard and broke their ribs with a side kick.

 

[loki09789]

I took two years of TKD while in the service (USTA, ATA, Jhoon Ree) and have a love/hate relationship with it.

I love the intensity of training, the devotion to personal and artistic excellence, the conditioning the discipline and professionalism(for the most part) that comes from a paramilitary class structure. I love that, at least in my experience, people were generally sympathized with if the training got tough and were offered steps/modifications that would fit their current ability and get them to the highest skill levels - but they were not excused from striving for excellence.

I wouldn't say hate because I don't think it is that intense but I am not a fan of the strictness of form regardless of body type/personal style. I am not a fan of the 'ego' at times that is evident (but is true in any school if the people are like that anyway). I don't like that the point sparring/olympic style contact sparring is passed off as street effective by some (granted I don't like getting hit that hard, but that isn't the way you will fight on the street.) I don't like how TKD mentallity can be misunderstood or mispracticed as "only-ism" and leads to some folks not even trying or respecting the approaches of other systems (but again this can fit any school if the people are just like that).

I have all the respect for skilled TKD people, been kicked hard by some good folks from the art. I just found that my goals and purposes were more suited for another path.