G
gman
Guest
Thanks for that link Clyde, I check Mr Tatums site every month or so but now it will be weekly. I have never had the chance to see Mr Tatum and it's great to see someone with that much knowledge right on my screne.
K
Kenpo Yahoo
Guest
Paul Mills Parting Wings (Bernie Drakes)
It may take a minute to download depending on your connection speed. After the page loads you can save it by right clicking and choosing the SAVE AS option. Play it next to the previous clip and make the decision for yourself, but while your waiting let me tell you what I thought of the two clips
Notice on the Mills Clip that you don't have to make big looping circles to develop power, this is done with proper body mechanics. Also in case your opponent is still moving forward from his push (which he will be) you minimize the amount of time between initial contact and the stopage of his forward momentum.
Looping wide does the following:
1) It increases weapon flight time which in turn....
2) increases the amount of time before you stop your opponents forward momentum (this is how take downs happen people)
3) leaves you open to attack
4) violates economy of motion
5) violates point of origin
6) Demonstrates a lack of proper body mechanics
7) sure does look pretty but pretty wins tournaments not fights.
It may take a minute to download depending on your connection speed. After the page loads you can save it by right clicking and choosing the SAVE AS option. Play it next to the previous clip and make the decision for yourself, but while your waiting let me tell you what I thought of the two clips
Notice on the Mills Clip that you don't have to make big looping circles to develop power, this is done with proper body mechanics. Also in case your opponent is still moving forward from his push (which he will be) you minimize the amount of time between initial contact and the stopage of his forward momentum.
Looping wide does the following:
1) It increases weapon flight time which in turn....
2) increases the amount of time before you stop your opponents forward momentum (this is how take downs happen people)
3) leaves you open to attack
4) violates economy of motion
5) violates point of origin
6) Demonstrates a lack of proper body mechanics
7) sure does look pretty but pretty wins tournaments not fights.
satans.barber
Master Black Belt
[ See all previous posts regarding non-M$ browsers, poor site design, embedding video, ripping media locations from source etc. ]
Oh I give up, just click this instead of that ^ :
http://www.akki.com/vegas/september2003/videos/video_mills_partingwings.mpg
Ian.
p.s. if you're in pursuit of creating usable webpages, please validate them: http://validator.w3.org/
TheEdge883
Green Belt
Quick question for you Clyde, does Larry do all the web page design, or does he hire a webmaster? If he does it all himself, send him my kudos too.
OP
OP
ProfessorKenpo
Guest
Far better thing to do than manage his website, like teaching Kenpo LOL. I don't know who he uses but lately they've been doing a nice job.
Have a great Kenpo day
Clyde
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
It may or may not be true that a "small," circle or loop is better, depending on the situation at the moment.
The higher sophistication, if ya gots to be sophisticated, lies in having different choices available, and choosing the right one for the need.
Associating moves with, "better," in this manner also encourages students to jump ahead of their training, and screw up what they need to learn at the moment--and, as was pointed out to me in class last night, to miss out on the simpler thing that the base tech teaches, all in favor of some, "higher," level of knowledge that won't necessarily mean very much.
Of course, it's also true that executing a serious strike in a small area usually denotes greater knowledge and longer practice, just as flattening circles and rounding off corners does. It just doesn't necessarily denote a "better," effect.
The higher sophistication, if ya gots to be sophisticated, lies in having different choices available, and choosing the right one for the need.
Associating moves with, "better," in this manner also encourages students to jump ahead of their training, and screw up what they need to learn at the moment--and, as was pointed out to me in class last night, to miss out on the simpler thing that the base tech teaches, all in favor of some, "higher," level of knowledge that won't necessarily mean very much.
Of course, it's also true that executing a serious strike in a small area usually denotes greater knowledge and longer practice, just as flattening circles and rounding off corners does. It just doesn't necessarily denote a "better," effect.
OP
OP
ProfessorKenpo
Guest
Hmm, the way we do Parting Wings, our left hand ck's their depth immediately before the right, wonder how that could happen? It's always a consideration where I train.
Have a great Kenpo day
Clyde
Mr. Tatum talks about economy of motion in his video. Looked to me like he was using a lot of point of origin stuff too... the right hand comes off the arm and into the ribs. he didn't pull it back much or rechamber or anything like that.
J
jeffkyle
Guest
Ok. You lost me on this Clyde. Can you explain it a little bit further? Please.
... I have seen dozens of variations on this, everything from an uppercut to the floating ribs (Sigung LaBounty) to a cancelling of width and redirecting the angle of the push by slapping, hooking eyes, or doing an inward horizontal heel palm strike with the left hand as the right executes the strike to the floating ribs or spleen. Then the grab to the pectorals minor (armpit/upperchest) tearing and checking as you strike with the left outward handsword (SGM Parker), nip the tip (Mr. Parker again) as the left hand travels down from the throat. I see most people do this as a positional check, a few do it as an active supressing check (if needed), then even fewer still use it as a "Nip the Tip" strike which assists in setting up the extension.
Paul Mill clip rocks - I have seen it done that way ... IT WORKS
Larry Tatums clip teaches more than demonstrates, but at speed, it rocks, and IT WORKS TOO. Both did the technique at an advanced level and they are BOTH correct. We are now looking at Tailoring and interpretation based on opponent's speed, size, sophistication, perceived threat, which of their legs is forward, etc.
Cool stuff to see on the internet.
OSS
Paul Mill clip rocks - I have seen it done that way ... IT WORKS
Larry Tatums clip teaches more than demonstrates, but at speed, it rocks, and IT WORKS TOO. Both did the technique at an advanced level and they are BOTH correct. We are now looking at Tailoring and interpretation based on opponent's speed, size, sophistication, perceived threat, which of their legs is forward, etc.
Cool stuff to see on the internet.
OSS
J
jeffkyle
Guest
I agree totally!
K
Kenpomachine
Guest
Thanks for the link, Ian. I wouldn't have seen it without it
K
Kenpo Yahoo
Guest
I agree that you should choose the best weapon and the best method of initiation, execution, penetration, and extraction to accomplish your goal. However, sophistication is a highly subjective term (which I suppose could be argued about the word "best"). If you use "Sophisticated" movement in everything that you do to the extent that it simply becomes engrained to the point where it is subconcious, then it really isn't sophisticated to you anymore only to someone else who has a different definition of what sophisticated means to them.
Nightingale, please rewatch the video at one point his Right hand circles back past the incoming hand of his opponent. I realize that this is being labeled as a teaching tool, and I've even seen people do the technique this way before. However, the loop wasn't half as big.
That's great for you, but the video that was presented goes for a while before it shows Mr. Tatum checking the depth of his opponent with a left outward chop, three moves later. How do you teach your beginning students to check their opponents depth "Immediately" so as not to get bull-dozed, that's always a consideration WHERE I train!
No but really where are You checking "his" depth? If you are stepping back while pushing outward with the left (which is what it looked like Mr. Tatum was doing) and circling out and back with the right, then where did your check come into play? If you "sophisticate" your initial movement too much then you......
The Mills clip doesn't compound any movements (unless you count body mechanics), doesn't try to sophisticate anything, it just demonstrates a straight forward execution of the technique. Bread and Butter.
J
jeffkyle
Guest
I just wanna see more clips! 
First off let me say how great it is to have guys putting themselves on video so that we can learn.
Mr. Mills was demonstarting the mechanics of the technique as was Mr Tatum. Both were working against an opponent that was being compliant. I have seen Mr Parker do the same thing in demos himself along with countless other martial artist. Consider the focus of any demo.
Spontaneity is very important consideration in self defense and maybe in the future other Kenpo instructors will demo this sort of thing for us.
J
jeffkyle
Guest
If you were in front of either of those guys wouldn't you want to be compliant too? It makes the pain hurt alot less!
Bill Lear
Brown Belt
The attacker actually tried to push Tatum a couple of times, while Mills attacker just stood there with his arms stretched out in front of him... I will concede that both men were compliant attackers, but there was still a BIG difference in what was done.
What does an applied attack have to do with spontaneity? You either attack or you don't. Right?
