This one's for the girls.

[shesulsa]

This all went WAY farther than I wanted it to go. I was meaning to be more on a funny note though, but I still believe that women were not meant to lead our country. God made men and women different and for different purposes. The men would not be able to have children and to "mother" them the way a woman could. And women in general aren't as physically strong as men; that is why there are men firefighters. They got to be able to carry their own weight and the dead weight of someone else. I believe that men are sopose to be the leaders.

Women lead this nation already - by raising the leaders of America (though a portion of the credit must go to their fathers).

I have to wonder where you come from to not know there are female firefighters? You've *never* met a woman who was stronger than a man? And any housewife will tell *all* about the dead weight she's hauling around.

Hm. Yeah, well ... good luck with that.

 

[Whitebelt]

I have to agree with Shes the Ulsa here. Women have a huge amount of power alot of men probably wish they didn't have. They out-perfrom males in GCSE's and yet half of womens jobs are part time and womens weekly income is 53% of mens. Women tend to have the upper hand in alot of situations although the men tend to think they do.

I'm realising I'm being preachy now

bye

 

[Sukerkin]

Holy Topic Veer, Batman! :lol:.

I do think that it is somewhat related to topic to bring up general differences between men and women tho', given that the OP was about barriers to advancement for women.

In the spirit of debate I'll try to address a couple of things brought up by the ladies without inspiring a barrage of scornful looks or rotten fruit .

The strength 'issue' is an average genetic truism but, as noted, any distribution has extremes, so to say that all men are stronger than all women is obviously untrue.

I am assuming that in something like the fire-service, there are tests that must be passed to judge if a person is fit enough to perform the duties? I hope that these are identical for men and women because, if they are, the allegation that women are not strong enough is easily set aside. If they are not the same tho', I do believe that it is wrong to put ideals of equality ahead of the practicalities of the circumstances.

On the educational 'issues', that is a recent development (by which I mean 'since I went to school' ... no comments please ) and has a lot to do with the peer-pressure being built up to suppress appearing intelligent or educated or even passably well mannered. It is as if a social devolution is in progress for males where the negative traits are the ones being pushed to the fore.

I would appeal to all the ladies within 'ear-shot' of this to please stop breeding with these poor examples of the male gender - if you picked your partners from those with positive traits then 'natural selection' will run it's course. If you don't then you have noone but yourselves to blame for what you end up with .

As to women having the upper hand ... that's not really a sentiment I find particularly reassuring for the future if it's a prevelent attitude. It suggests role inversion rather than parity, which I don't think is a step forward.

Personal relationships are built on mutuality, with an agreed/apparent Decision Maker to stop things getting deadlocked. If that process is followed with the other persons best interests at the fore then it works fine. If it's done selfishly then it works very badly and such relationships seldom survive. The gender of the 'arbiter' matters not one jot ...

... altho' if it's a woman in a Western heterosexual relationship, it's nice if, in public, she let's it appear as if the man 'wears the trousers' (even in ths day and age it's hard for a man to hold his head up with pride if those around judge him as 'commanded').

Professional relationships are also based on mutuality with a more formal hierarchy overlaid on them. The 'upper hand' is delineated in such circumstances and should not depend on gender. Of course, gender will intefere somewhat, depending on the era and general background in which the people involved grew up but common sense and common courtesy should keep problems to a minimum.

In my case, for example, I've worked with women as subordinate, equal and superior and have never had any unpleasantness - that's despite my being a reactionary old fossil with a strict christian upbringing :lol:.

Anyhow, this headache of mine is getting worse and I think I shall have to retire hurt for a time until I can string sentences together more coherently.

 

[CuongNhuka]

Here's a thought that occurs to me. In the military you have to pass (and continuly to pass) a physical fitness. I've seen the standards for men and women in the Army, Airforce, Navy, and Marine Corps. For a 2 mile run (Army) there is a few minute differnce between what is perfect! That means for a perfect score a male must be at 13 minutes even. A female it's around 16 minutes (I cann't remember the exact number). In the Marine Corps it's a differnce of 2 minutes (if I recall correctly; keep in mind we do a 3 mile run). So, a perfect score for a man in the Army averages out to a 6:30 miles per minute (male), and 8 minute mile for females. With the Marines it's 6 minutes even (male) and just over 7 minutes (female). So, our standards are actually much closer! Therefor, ladies if you want to join the military, GO MARINE! Keep in mind however, Basic training is divided by sex. However, it is all the same Basic training.

Anouther thought occurs to me. Many pagan tribes form North Europe would actually say that women are stronger then men. There rationele? Simple. Giving birth (and pregnancy in general) is very difficult physically and mentally (to put it mildly). I know it wasn't uncommon amoung Celtic Tribes to have a Queen rule instead of a King.

 

[KELLYG]

I think that a woman or persons of color that are capable, can run this country. I don't think that how many miles you can run or how many push ups you can do has anything to do with it.. As for women getting all pms'ed and blowing up the world is just plain silly. I think that the A bomb was dropped by a man, right.!! Food for thought:
where do you think that all the MEN presidents are coming from the cabbage patch!!

 

[GradualProgression]

Hilary didn't run for President she ran for a chance to run for President.

 

[punisher73]

I am assuming that in something like the fire-service, there are tests that must be passed to judge if a person is fit enough to perform the duties? I hope that these are identical for men and women because, if they are, the allegation that women are not strong enough is easily set aside. If they are not the same tho', I do believe that it is wrong to put ideals of equality ahead of the practicalities of the circumstances.

When I got my Law Enforcement certification, for the males in my age group it was about 30 push ups for passing. For a female, in my age group it was 7 push ups for passing! On the 1/2 mile shuttle run I think they had about 1min 30 secs longer. You could literally walk most of it under the women's time and still pass it.

Face it folks, man and women are DIFFERENT, not better...not worse, but different! And to have different standards for each puts everyone at risk when a job calls for a certain level of physical fitness/strength.

KELLYG Wrote:

I think that a woman or persons of color that are capable, can run this country

I was watching a news program and they were interviewing a top member of the NAACP, and there was another guest on as well. The topic was affirmative action, and the other guest (sorry can't remember either person's name) said about this same thing. He was told that this kind of statement is discriminatory because there is an inherent implication that "persons of color" (aren't we all though?) and women are inferior.

I only point that out because, we ALWAYS focus on the differences instead of what we have in common. Look at the superbowl a couple years ago when they Colts won, what was the BIG TOPIC of conversation? It had nothing to do with the team's athleticism or the great coaching and guidance they got.

 

[Whitebelt]

If only all the people of the world were as fair minded and level headed as the people of this forum.

 

[tellner]

The same consultants whose advice worked so well for Mondale, Dukakis, Gore and Kerry ran the Clinton campaign. One of the fundamental tenets is that there must be no spontaneity and no unscripted moments. That means candidates who are stiff, uninspiring and fake-looking. The real person is not permitted to overshadow the product that the consultants are pushing.

 

[KELLYG]

FYI

My previous statement was not anyway meant to be racist or derogatory toward people of color or woman. Since the only leaders of our country have been middle aged white men I wanted to make sure that It was understood that anyone that is capable could and should be allowed to run and obtain any office that they are qualified and elected to hold.

I hope that this clears up my position.

thanks

 

[Big Don]

The same consultants whose advice worked so well for Mondale, Dukakis, Gore and Kerry ran the Clinton campaign.

Her loss then, was entirely her fault for hiring people with poor track records.