Thinking of starting

[ap Oweyn]

Think of kali, eskrima, and arnis the same way you'd think of the term kung fu. All it means, really, is a Filipino martial art. Not only do those terms NOT really tell you anything about the content of any given curriculum, but they change over time. I started in Doce Pares myself. At that time, arnis was the favoured term. Now, it's eskrima. That doesn't reflect any change in material. Just verbiage. Similarly, you see a lot of schools using kali now, where they might have formerly used another term.

So, arnis, eskrima, and kali all being very generic, you've already taken the next step: Identifying the specific style. Doce Pares in this case. As MJS already stated, some styles will favour one aspect of FMA over another. Some will focus on knife or stick or long range or short range or...

Doce Pares, I regard as being a fairly balanced representation of FMA, though I'd say that we were more impact based than blade based (when compared with something like Pekiti or Illustrisimo). And not particularly focused on either long range (largo mano) or short range (corto). There was content for each, but I felt like we spent most of our time at medio (medium) range.

Most FMA schools will hit on single stick, double stick, stick and dagger, single dagger, double dagger, and empty hand. You might get some time with staff (sibat) or chain (kadena), or other more obscure weapons. But you can pretty much bet on the former.

I've been practicing FMA since 1989, and have seen similarities with the other things I've trained in over the years, including the taisabaki of Shotokan karate. So I'm not surprised to hear you say that it resembles taijutsu.

As far as competition, I don't think it's required. Gearing up and doing some pressure testing, sure. But not necessarily in a sport-based format. I have competed in WEKAF stickfighting tournies before, but don't think it's essential.


Stuart

 

[Supra Vijai]

Thanks ap Oweyn, that's really helpful. As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, I've sent off an email to one of the instructors to try get a clearer understanding of the school's particular approach as ideally I'm after something more combative rather than sportive.

 

[Supra Vijai]

Just a quick update guys, I've been doing some research and have heard back from the instructor that I'd emailed. From everything I've gathered the particular approach used seems to be more sportive - practitioners aim to get up to 90 strikes per minute etc - whereas my interest is in something more combative for the time being.

I also had a quick chat to my Sensei in Ninjutsu and he said that I could approach it as something different and have fun with it but to be honest, I think I'd be doing both arts a major disservice if I was to take up training with that mindset at this stage.

I have a long way to go before I would feel confident enough in my understanding of my primary art before I could really take another art on lightly and not worry about it affecting my other training etc. I'm sorry if this has been a waste of all your time!

I do sincerely appreciate the help and advice though and am not ruling out FMA for good, just putting it on the back burner for the time being till I can approach it with the focus it deserves Again, thanks for all your help and all the best with your own training

 

[ap Oweyn]

Just a quick update guys, I've been doing some research and have heard back from the instructor that I'd emailed. From everything I've gathered the particular approach used seems to be more sportive - practitioners aim to get up to 90 strikes per minute etc - whereas my interest is in something more combative for the time being.

I also had a quick chat to my Sensei in Ninjutsu and he said that I could approach it as something different and have fun with it but to be honest, I think I'd be doing both arts a major disservice if I was to take up training with that mindset at this stage.

I have a long way to go before I would feel confident enough in my understanding of my primary art before I could really take another art on lightly and not worry about it affecting my other training etc. I'm sorry if this has been a waste of all your time!

I do sincerely appreciate the help and advice though and am not ruling out FMA for good, just putting it on the back burner for the time being till I can approach it with the focus it deserves Again, thanks for all your help and all the best with your own training

I don't think there's really a right or wrong answer here. You could put FMA training off until you've reached some benchmark or another in your current style. Or you could start FMA now and, I believe, garner some genuine benefit from it pretty promptly. But I don't think you need to take up FMA to enjoy what you're doing now. So it's really your call.

I certainly don't regard this discussion as a waste of time. Regards.


Stuart

 

[Blindside]

Just a quick update guys, I've been doing some research and have heard back from the instructor that I'd emailed. From everything I've gathered the particular approach used seems to be more sportive - practitioners aim to get up to 90 strikes per minute etc - whereas my interest is in something more combative for the time being.

I also had a quick chat to my Sensei in Ninjutsu and he said that I could approach it as something different and have fun with it but to be honest, I think I'd be doing both arts a major disservice if I was to take up training with that mindset at this stage.

I have a long way to go before I would feel confident enough in my understanding of my primary art before I could really take another art on lightly and not worry about it affecting my other training etc. I'm sorry if this has been a waste of all your time!

I do sincerely appreciate the help and advice though and am not ruling out FMA for good, just putting it on the back burner for the time being till I can approach it with the focus it deserves Again, thanks for all your help and all the best with your own training

Are there other options out there? A quick Google search turned up:
http://amok.org.au/about.htm

 

[Supra Vijai]

I don't think there's really a right or wrong answer here. You could put FMA training off until you've reached some benchmark or another in your current style. Or you could start FMA now and, I believe, garner some genuine benefit from it pretty promptly. But I don't think you need to take up FMA to enjoy what you're doing now. So it's really your call.

I certainly don't regard this discussion as a waste of time. Regards.


Stuart

I wasn't meaning I need to take up FMA to enjoy what I'm doing now. I do really enjoy Ninjutsu as is but would personally like to feel more confident in my abilities within the art before I add something else on with a totally different focus. As for benchmarks, I haven't really set one in terms of "I must be at this rank first" etc, it's just a confidence thing which I'm hoping will come sooner rather than later

 

[Flying Crane]

I also had a quick chat to my Sensei in Ninjutsu and he said that I could approach it as something different and have fun with it but to be honest, I think I'd be doing both arts a major disservice if I was to take up training with that mindset at this stage.

This is a very valid point, and I'm glad you recognize it.

It is possible to study more than one system at a time, many people do it, some of them even manage to do it well. You need to keep some things in mind, however, It all means a compromise.

Time spent training one art is time spent NOT training the other. This means you are splitting your time and energy between them, and means that your development in BOTH will be slower and probably more frustrating. The time issue alone guarantees this.

The other issue is that some systems may actually use training methods that contradict the methods used in another art. If this is true in what you are doing, then training each art could actually make your other art worse.

There are many many different arts out there. It can be tempting to want to sample them all and think that you can incorporate all of them into your training. This just isn't possible, if you want to develop solid skills and knowledge in any of them. Most people cannot even keep up with one system. A few people can manage to keep up with two, maybe even more, but it becomes really iffy as you go down that road. Usually people end up with a superficial understanding in several arts, and no solid skills in any of them. Being able to list a bunch of systems on your resume doesn't mean you can use them in any meaningful way.

Often people will spend a number of years drifting from one art to another, in an attempt to figure out what is the right thing for them. This is OK, it's a bit of a self-discovery journey. But eventually you gotta figure out what's the right thing for you, and then focus on that. Make that your life's work. Otherwise you are just going to keep drifting. You may "know" all this stuff, but not on a meaningful level, not in a way that makes it really useful to you.

I'm dealing with this right now, in my own personal situation. I've trained in more than one system over the years, and have maintained this for a long time. About a year and a half ago my sifu introduced me to his sifu in the system that I was most interested in, of all the systems that I've studied. I was accepted into that group and I am studying that system on a much deeper level. I realised I needed to devote all of my energy and effort into that one system, or I simply would not do it justice. It was time to grow up and stop collecting things. Time to focus on something and make it truly meaningful. For this last year I've simply drifted away from practicing almost any of the other material that I had learned, and this issue has been rolling around in the back of my head for all this time. Recently some events came up that brought this to the forefront and forced me to face the issue and make a deliberate decision about it. I have made my decision, and I'm happy for it, it's put things into perspective and into order for me. I know what my focus is and I am content to let the other things fall away.

Just wanted to share some perspective.

 

[Supra Vijai]

Thanks Flying Crane. I was looking for a second art that is sufficiently different from Ninjutsu so as not to cause that confusion which you mention. Also I was after something with a more combative and "real world" approach so to speak. I find I get my philosophical wants more than satisfied by Ninjutsu and it's great for the traditional aspects and training but I was after something more street ready so I could add that in.

What I'm thinking doing now is going through some private lessons with my Sensei with an RBSD focus in our own time and focus my main MA training on the one art for at least a little while longer

 

[MJS]

Supra,

Regarding the sport feel that you got from them: Was there anything else that gave you that feeling? The 90 strikes could simply be that they're training their students to be quick with strikes. This is just a guess, as I dont train in that art.

Regarding whether or not you'd be able to do more than 1 art at a time: People do it all the time. IMO, I get the impression that people think its impossible...its not. I do suggest that people have a solid base art first, before diving into something else. IMO I think alot comes down to the goals. For myself, as someone who does Kenpo and Arnis, I'm not in a rush. For the amount of time that I've been in Arnis, you'd figure I'd be more than a 1st degree BB. I'm not concerned about rank...I'm concerned with learning the art. That being said, yes, it is possible to train 2 arts, as long as you're not in a rush, and willing to work on small parts at a time.

 

[Supra Vijai]

MJS,

The overall impression was due to a) the number of strikes etc along with a strong emphasis on speed as opposed to power and b) the emphasis on competitions that came up.

My own perception of rank is that it's not important so to speak. I mean we all know of "juniors" who outclass their "seniors" in any particular art just due to their approach and vice versa. Honestly I couldn't say I have a strong enough base in my primary art just yet.

As I mentioned, it's just not what I'm looking for right now as opposed to no interest at all Hopefully with some private lessons covering the rbsd and some focussed training, I can reach that stage sooner rather than later and can look into getting into the world of FMA. From everything I've seen and heard about it so far, I am certainly interested in it

 

[LabanB]

Just found this thread.

One of my first students trained in Ninjutsu as his primary art. He trained with me for about 6 months then had to drop out due to teacher training he was doing.

One of his fellow Ninjustsu students told me the rest of the class were glad when he dropped the FMA as his hand speed dropped back down to a level they could handle again!!!

Both arts are very different, so really won't negatively affect the other.

Bill

 

[Supra Vijai]

Thanks Bill, the speed is something I never doubted Also good to hear that you had a student from Ninjutsu cross train with you. Do you happen to know what level he was at when he started FMA?