They sure take their black belts seriously

[JR 137]

Yep. They talk about an eye gouge on a small moving target, yet they can't land a jab on an uncooperative opponent. Learn to land a jab at will and we can discuss the matter of landing that eye jab.

But, I digress.

BB's mean nothing outside of that particular school/system/organization in reality. For some, it marks a sign of excellence and skill for others it marks you as ready to start learning.

And for others it marks a rite of passage.

 

[JR 137]

I'd hesitate to call that sparring... This is more like LARP fighting. They've likely decided that the side kick is the most powerful and devastating kick, so the best thing to hit is that. But not wanting to hospitalize each other with this devastating kick they pull them so that they don't ever even come close to landing.

Might was well be standing there yelling "fireball" as they throw bean bags at each other and deflect them with a cardboard shield.

Now maybe they have developed a set of rules and points and there are people that are better and worse within those rules... but what they are doing is fantasy fighting.

If you think their sparring is bad, you should see their kata. It’s like the age-old question - do you want to be shot to death or stabbed to death. There’s no winner in that game.

Same group, doing kata. There’s quite a few videos floating around of these guys doing kata...

 

[Andrew Green]

If you think their sparring is bad, you should see their kata. It’s like the age-old question - do you want to be shot to death or stabbed to death. There’s no winner in that game.

Same group, doing kata. There’s quite a few videos floating around of these guys doing kata...

All the same problem, when you get too far away from reality and into fantasy you will draw strange conclusions as to how things should be done. In their mind they probably are making the kata more realistic by changing the pace and making them less rigid...

 

[JR 137]

All the same problem, when you get too far away from reality and into fantasy you will draw strange conclusions as to how things should be done. In their mind they probably are making the kata more realistic by changing the pace and making them less rigid...

I read a post on Reddit by a former student in that organization. He had some interesting things to say about why they do kata and other stuff the way they do...

The idea is fighting is chaotic and at full speed, so kata should be done the same way.

Their organization is run by “Headmaster Dealy.” He’s a headmaster at a private school in Brooklyn, NY. The organization is mainly kids from the school and their parents. The adults you see are parents of current students or parents that stuck around after their kids quit. They don’t post videos of the kids, and for good reasons IMO (not talking about awful MA, but just in general).

There is no “offensive contact” allowed in sparring, meaning the only contact allowed is light blocking only.

They allegedly don’t have any illusions of being deadly warriors nor anything close to that.

Their MA skill speaks for itself, but if they’re keeping kids off the streets and out of trouble, I can respect at least that. If they’re genuinely teaching kids to be upstanding people, I can respect that too. But the MA that’s actually being taught? Again, it speaks for itself. I guess no good dead goes unpunished, huh?

 

[drop bear]

I’ve overwhelmingly seen them rely too much on the groin kick, eye gouge, bite, etc. work EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Better yet, I haven’t seen very many contingency plans.

I am not paying a guy for eye gouge. I can come up with that myself.

 

[hoshin1600]

I read a post on Reddit by a former student in that organization. He had some interesting things to say about why they do kata and other stuff the way they do...

The idea is fighting is chaotic and at full speed, so kata should be done the same way.

Their organization is run by “Headmaster Dealy.” He’s a headmaster at a private school in Brooklyn, NY. The organization is mainly kids from the school and their parents. The adults you see are parents of current students or parents that stuck around after their kids quit. They don’t post videos of the kids, and for good reasons IMO (not talking about awful MA, but just in general).

There is no “offensive contact” allowed in sparring, meaning the only contact allowed is light blocking only.

They allegedly don’t have any illusions of being deadly warriors nor anything close to that.

Their MA skill speaks for itself, but if they’re keeping kids off the streets and out of trouble, I can respect at least that. If they’re genuinely teaching kids to be upstanding people, I can respect that too. But the MA that’s actually being taught? Again, it speaks for itself. I guess no good dead goes unpunished, huh?

Thanks for that info...it all makes sense to me now. This is what happens when the PC police, helicopter parent,snowflake mentality teach martial arts.

 

[JR 137]

Thanks for that info...it all makes sense to me now. This is what happens when the PC police, helicopter parent,snowflake mentality teach martial arts.

And/or people who have no clue what a fight actually entails teach MA, or when people who teach MA have no interest in actually being able to physically defend themselves.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I am not paying a guy for eye gouge. I can come up with that myself.

Agreed. The mechanics are simple (assuming the student is trained to punch and grab, they have all the pieces already), so it should only come up in discussions of tactics (what's available when), rather than as a point of practice.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And/or people who have no clue what a fight actually entails teach MA, or when people who teach MA have no interest in actually being able to physically defend themselves.

That latter one can produce much more interesting (to participate in) results than these. Some branches of Aikido have gone that route (IMO).

 

[JR 137]

That latter one can produce much more interesting (to participate in) results than these. Some branches of Aikido have gone that route (IMO).

I didn’t say these guys any good at it

 

[hoshin1600]

Because that last clip hurt my eyes, i need to post this.....

this is how you do kata fast.
even if you had no ambition about actual fighting this is still how karate should look. so i have trouble saying that the reason some people do not have competence in martial arts is because they have no interest in fighting. however i completely agree that some people choose to foster the self delusion of having fighting ability.

 

[JR 137]

Because that last clip hurt my eyes, i need to post this.....

this is how you do kata fast.
even if you had no ambition about actual fighting this is still how karate should look. so i have trouble saying that the reason some people do not have competence in martial arts is because they have no interest in fighting. however i completely agree that some people choose to foster the self delusion of having fighting ability.

I have the deepest respect for Rika Usumi and her skills. But this is how I think kata should be done...

I highly doubt he’d win very many WKF medals, but which one looks like they’re actually in a fight?

 

[Buka]

William Oliver was something special. Helluva fighter.

 

[_Simon_]

As for sparring always answering questions of skill, I leave you with this...

Edit: I guess it does actually answer the question of skill, if you say it answers how good or poor the skills are.

Ahhh I'm so glad these guys have popped up again XD haha...

Because that last clip hurt my eyes, i need to post this.....

this is how you do kata fast.
even if you had no ambition about actual fighting this is still how karate should look. so i have trouble saying that the reason some people do not have competence in martial arts is because they have no interest in fighting. however i completely agree that some people choose to foster the self delusion of having fighting ability.

Ah I love Rika! Such a delight watching her kata...

I have the deepest respect for Rika Usumi and her skills. But this is how I think kata should be done...

I highly doubt he’d win very many WKF medals, but which one looks like they’re actually in a fight?

Also a William Oliver fan and the way he gives a real liveliness to kata. He had such a tangible passion for karate. But I do prefer Rika's style of kata ;D

 

[PhotonGuy]

Where - at the gym I train at: 4 Seasons MMA
Who - technically, it was Carlson Gracie Jr who made the decision to promote me that day, but Carlson only knows me from seminars. Really the promotion is under the auspices of our head instructor, Mike O'Donnell.
When - February, 2015

Well congratulations. Your head instructor must have direct contact with the Gracies as mine does. Anyway, unlike as it might be in other styles depending on the school you train in, as I said BJJ black belts are really hard to get. If you train in Karate or Tae Kwon Do for instance getting a black belt might or might not be really hard as there are some Karate and TKD schools that hand out belts. Certainly not all Karate and TKD schools hand out belts but there are some that do. But with BJJ, I've never heard of a BJJ school that hands out black belts, or any belt for that matter except the white belt. So if you wear a BJJ black belt you had better have earned it. Don't wear a BJJ black belt if you haven't earned it.

 

[PhotonGuy]

And for others it marks a rite of passage.

That was the point I was trying to make sometime back with this other member on Martial Talk. I forget his username but from what I remember he's a police officer in Maryland.