They just walk away

[girlbug2]

Iceman I would stop worrying about them. You have done everything on your end to let them know that they have been missed. The ball is in their court and if they want to they know how to contact you.

My sensei used to worry a lot about people who left suddenly. Sometimes in his after-training talks he would tell us about students who left and what their reasons were. One particularly talented kid was almost a prodigy he was that good, went up through belt ranks quickly and was almost a brown belt in four months; he decided to quit one day because (according to his mom) karate was so easy for him that he was bored with it!(the lesson: talented people often fail to achieve in life because they don't appreciate the things that come too easily to them).

Other families have pulled their kids out of karate for financial reasons, or because of personality conflicts between the kids or even between the parents (which IMO is the lamest possible excuse). Sometimes it is because the kids get discouraged by how hard it is and their parents don't insist that they give it all they've got to reach their goals (becoming more and more epidemic). Sometimes it's the parents who think their kids should be advancing faster and they go looking for another school that will allow their kids to advance guaranteed with each belt test (sensei's response to that: I'm not a prostitute).

Notice that none of the above reasons are within the control of you, the teacher! (and you're obviously not a prostitute)

So my advice is to print out a copy of the Serenity Prayer and post it where you will be constantly reminded that some things must be given up to God.

Blessings to you

 

[PEP-REP]

Just to update you on what I've done over the weekend. I emailed this family (and other families in our school) photos of our last test in March. I also emailed this family pictures of their kids at this test. After 4 days, I've not gotten no response from them. I did however, get a foward email (that seems to be sent to the mom's whole address book) about nothing important. So, they are around, just not willing to contact me directly.

Since they don't answer the phone or return messages, nor do they reply to emails, there's nothing else I can really do. As much as going to their house sounds like a good idea at first, it seems a bit like stalking to me. As my wife put it, "a bit like showing up on the doorstep of that girl that doesn't want to date you."

So, I'm gonna let it go & stop holding my breath for them to show up. I need that for my sanity. Thanks for your help!

Do you have an attendance policy? meaning what do you do with students who stop coming? do you have a set procedure that you follow with every student? If you don't now might be the time to develop one. It can make something good for your school come out of this tough situation.

Just a thought

Glenn

 

[IcemanSK]

Do you have an attendance policy? meaning what do you do with students who stop coming? do you have a set procedure that you follow with every student? If you don't now might be the time to develop one. It can make something good for your school come out of this tough situation.

Just a thought

Glenn

Thanks Glen. Since I only have 14 students, it's a fairly simple policy. When they miss, if they don't call & let me know why, they get a phone call.

 

[IcemanSK]

Iceman I would stop worrying about them. You have done everything on your end to let them know that they have been missed. The ball is in their court and if they want to they know how to contact you.

My sensei used to worry a lot about people who left suddenly. Sometimes in his after-training talks he would tell us about students who left and what their reasons were. One particularly talented kid was almost a prodigy he was that good, went up through belt ranks quickly and was almost a brown belt in four months; he decided to quit one day because (according to his mom) karate was so easy for him that he was bored with it!(the lesson: talented people often fail to achieve in life because they don't appreciate the things that come too easily to them).

Other families have pulled their kids out of karate for financial reasons, or because of personality conflicts between the kids or even between the parents (which IMO is the lamest possible excuse). Sometimes it is because the kids get discouraged by how hard it is and their parents don't insist that they give it all they've got to reach their goals (becoming more and more epidemic). Sometimes it's the parents who think their kids should be advancing faster and they go looking for another school that will allow their kids to advance guaranteed with each belt test (sensei's response to that: I'm not a prostitute).

Notice that none of the above reasons are within the control of you, the teacher! (and you're obviously not a prostitute)

So my advice is to print out a copy of the Serenity Prayer and post it where you will be constantly reminded that some things must be given up to God.

Blessings to you

Excellent idea!

I've ruled out financial reasons, due to the cost of my program & the fact that the parents know I'll work with them. (This family can afford nearly any school in town. The last I heard from them the "love my class & all wanted to be BB's": so I rule out displeasure with me or the program.

Ok, ok, Serenity Prayer. I don't know the reason. They are not here. This I can not change

 

[PEP-REP]

Thanks Glen. Since I only have 14 students, it's a fairly simple policy. When they miss, if they don't call & let me know why, they get a phone call.

I see, I understand now a bit better how you were so close to this family. Is it your intention to grow your school? Do you want to make it your primary job? If so even with a small number of students you should develop a policy for everything your gonna do.

When I decided to make martial arts my only job, I had only about 30 students and I taught for a college. We developed a policy for what we would do for evey situation that could occur in the school. Now that we have have grown to 9 locations and 1000s of students we still use the same guidelines we first setup when we had a small student base.

Good Luck and It appears you have come to terms with this which is best for you and your students that want to be there!! Congrats! and good luck

Glenn

 

[newGuy12]

The oldest kids (13, 15, & 16) brought a really energy to class. As my only teens, their absence is hard for most of my students. I really miss them also. Honestly, it is them I miss & not the income.

Oh, that sucks! I feel for you! That is very bad, to loose the teenagers like that!

I cannot judge too harshly, because I left my school -- I just could not practice any more. I cannot explain this -- I just could not do it. I was beat.

Now, I quote this here --

Whether your students are children, teens, or adults - you make their world better. In the long run, that's all that really matters.

Now, my original Teachers are not available to me now. One is dead, and one now is far away. I cannot just move to be with my old Teacher, because I have an established life now, and TKD is simply one part of it, not so big as it once was.

I can say this, though -- those two Men showed me how I could be powerful -- move powerfully. This is something that I could never have imagined if it were not for them! I will never forget them, ever!

Once again, that is just bad, to loose the young (but not TOO young) students -- the ones that are not childish, but yet are not adult either, because in my mind, those are the BEST!

One can only hope that one sibling will STRIKE the other one, in some kind of impromptu freesparring, and then they will say to each other -- we have to go to the Dojang now! You can never tell.

 

[Laurentkd]

whoops!! I forgot we don't get many posts in this section and didn't realize this thread was so old!!
So did you ever hear back from them?





Lots of good points here.
Just wanted to add myself to the number here that has lost students and really been hurt by it. I had a little guy who started when he was maybe 8, he was shy and quiet and his mom set him up for some private lessons with me. By 15 this young man turned into the most disciplined, respectful, and physically talented kid I have ever met. He and I were always really close (everyone teased that he was my little protégé) and his parents were wonderfully supportive. And then he started high school, got interested in debate (and girls) and before you know it he just stopped showing up. Not a phone call or a conversation or anything! I even called to invite him to my 4th Dan test, but didn't hear a thing from him. I was really down about it for quite awhile, but my instructor told me that if you teach martial arts these types of things are going to happen. He said the only "solution" was to not care about anyone, don't get attached to them, just take their money, teach class without emotion and then you won't care if they quit. Of course, he and I both know that this type of attitude is impossible when you really love teaching and what he really was trying to tell me is there is NO SOLUTION. This is part of the life of a martial art instructor. And it sucks. Good thing we are all so tough huh! Good luck with your students Ice, but just remember it will always be a part of your life.

on a side note: I think miss you cards in the mail mean a lot. Plus, I am willing to bet the kid actually sees it and maybe the kid can get excited again (versus a phone message or email that only mom and dad gets). Another thing that I have never tried is an "exit survey". Maybe you would find out a little more about their leaving, or at least know if they were happy with the different aspects of your classes.

Good luck with the students you still have-- those are the ones that need your focus now.

 

[IcemanSK]

whoops!! I forgot we don't get many posts in this section and didn't realize this thread was so old!!
So did you ever hear back from them?





Lots of good points here.
Just wanted to add myself to the number here that has lost students and really been hurt by it. I had a little guy who started when he was maybe 8, he was shy and quiet and his mom set him up for some private lessons with me. By 15 this young man turned into the most disciplined, respectful, and physically talented kid I have ever met. He and I were always really close (everyone teased that he was my little protégé) and his parents were wonderfully supportive. And then he started high school, got interested in debate (and girls) and before you know it he just stopped showing up. Not a phone call or a conversation or anything! I even called to invite him to my 4th Dan test, but didn't hear a thing from him. I was really down about it for quite awhile, but my instructor told me that if you teach martial arts these types of things are going to happen. He said the only "solution" was to not care about anyone, don't get attached to them, just take their money, teach class without emotion and then you won't care if they quit. Of course, he and I both know that this type of attitude is impossible when you really love teaching and what he really was trying to tell me is there is NO SOLUTION. This is part of the life of a martial art instructor. And it sucks. Good thing we are all so tough huh! Good luck with your students Ice, but just remember it will always be a part of your life.

on a side note: I think miss you cards in the mail mean a lot. Plus, I am willing to bet the kid actually sees it and maybe the kid can get excited again (versus a phone message or email that only mom and dad gets). Another thing that I have never tried is an "exit survey". Maybe you would find out a little more about their leaving, or at least know if they were happy with the different aspects of your classes.

Good luck with the students you still have-- those are the ones that need your focus now.

Thanks Lauren!

Nope, I never heard from them again. I called, & emailed, but they never responded. As much as I want to go knock on the door, I'm not gonna beg. I stopped being co-dependant a long time ago.

 

[Steve]

I realize that this may not be a popular perspective, but personally, I think it's a fine line you guys are treading between concern and harrassment. You have entered into a business arrangement with these folks. There may be a cordial, personal aspect to the relationship, sure. At its root, however, it is a business relationship. This talk about "pulling them back" and blatant emotional tactics in the form of "You're Missed" cards, or "sending friendly people by to check on them" are completely inappropriate, in my opinion.

The reality, as I see it, is that it's none of your business why they left, and you shouldn't take it personally. Life happens and there are a billion different possible reasons why those kids haven't come back to your school. But beyond perhaps a courtesy phone call, I would spend little time worrying about it. In my mind, the chances of those kids coming back are much more likely if you don't harrass the parents by sending "friendly people by" to check in on them or sending them notes. Honestly, many of those tactics sound startlingly similar to the tactics used by churches.

I think that if your business includes children to any significant degree, you should get used to a great deal of attrition. Kids are all over the place in their interests, and they should be. Forcing children to commit too early denies them the opportunity to discover all of the possibilities that exist.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I have a family where I have 7 of their 10 children in class. They've been with me since day one of my school. They've been loyal students & fun to be around. I've gotten along with the parents quite well. They are home-schooled.

In March, they were a part of a community play which my wife & I gladly attended. The mom said, "we're taking April off to catch up on school. We'll be back in May." I told mom that I didn't want them to take off too long because it's hard to get in the habit of coming back. She said, "oh, we'll be back. All the kids want to be black belts." Well, May came & went & they didn't show. I've called & left voice mails as well as emails with no response. Without them I have 11 students.

The oldest kids (13, 15, & 16) brought a really energy to class. As my only teens, their absence is hard for most of my students. I really miss them also. Honestly, it is them I miss & not the income.

Any thoughts on what I should do? I have an emotional investment in this program & my students (as you may be able to tell). This is hard for me. When I switched locations I lost a lot of students. Loosing this one family is harder than all the others I've lost in the transition.

There done. You were right from the get go.
Sean

 

[Steve]

whoops!! I forgot we don't get many posts in this section and didn't realize this thread was so old!!
So did you ever hear back from them?





Lots of good points here.
Just wanted to add myself to the number here that has lost students and really been hurt by it. I had a little guy who started when he was maybe 8, he was shy and quiet and his mom set him up for some private lessons with me. By 15 this young man turned into the most disciplined, respectful, and physically talented kid I have ever met. He and I were always really close (everyone teased that he was my little protégé) and his parents were wonderfully supportive. And then he started high school, got interested in debate (and girls) and before you know it he just stopped showing up. Not a phone call or a conversation or anything! I even called to invite him to my 4th Dan test, but didn't hear a thing from him. I was really down about it for quite awhile, but my instructor told me that if you teach martial arts these types of things are going to happen. He said the only "solution" was to not care about anyone, don't get attached to them, just take their money, teach class without emotion and then you won't care if they quit. Of course, he and I both know that this type of attitude is impossible when you really love teaching and what he really was trying to tell me is there is NO SOLUTION. This is part of the life of a martial art instructor. And it sucks. Good thing we are all so tough huh! Good luck with your students Ice, but just remember it will always be a part of your life.

on a side note: I think miss you cards in the mail mean a lot. Plus, I am willing to bet the kid actually sees it and maybe the kid can get excited again (versus a phone message or email that only mom and dad gets). Another thing that I have never tried is an "exit survey". Maybe you would find out a little more about their leaving, or at least know if they were happy with the different aspects of your classes.

Good luck with the students you still have-- those are the ones that need your focus now.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the "teaching without emotion and not getting attached. I can't understand why no one can see a middle ground, where you teach the kids as kids, accepting that they're fickle and flighty. They're kids. Nurture them for what they are, teach them what you can and enjoy the time you have.

I would also be wary of exit surveys or anything like that. I would think that leaving the door open, making it clear that the children are always welcome back, and leaving it to the parents to decide is the best thing.

My kids and I studied at a school before training where I'm at now. We needed to take 2 months off for summer, and had every intention of returning. Tactics such as the ones described in this thread made me very glad we had left and I have never regretted not going back as a result.

 

[Laurentkd]

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the "teaching without emotion and not getting attached. I can't understand why no one can see a middle ground, where you teach the kids as kids, accepting that they're fickle and flighty. They're kids. Nurture them for what they are, teach them what you can and enjoy the time you have.

I think you mis-understood my post. The idea of teaching with no emotion was meant to be so far out of the realm of possibility that it was obviously no answer at all.

Also, I see exactly what you mean about not chasing students down... but don't forget that this thread was asking about different ideas to implement, it was not meant to be read as if we think someone should do ALL of these things. Rather it is just a sharing of ideas.
I really don't see anything wrong with a "we miss you" card. Heck, I get them from a dentist that I went to once, let alone countless other big name business who I know for a fact don't "miss me" and only miss my money (every card I have sent out has been a genuine "miss you"). I wouldn't send one more than once, or send someone over to visit them in person, but sometimes if a student realizes "wow! they really do care about me over there" it gives them enough of a push to get over the embarrassement of having quit (and having been passed up by junior students, or having forgotten a lot of material) and it gets them back in class. It has happened at my school a couple of times.

My kids and I studied at a school before training where I'm at now. We needed to take 2 months off for summer, and had every intention of returning. Tactics such as the ones described in this thread made me very glad we had left and I have never regretted not going back as a result.

I think your experience (if I read it correctly) supports sending some sort of follow up to students. You wanted to take 2 months off and you never returned, even though you had every intention too. Maybe (just maybe) a little nudge would have been enough to get you back in. I am not saying it would work for you, but if a student is already "gone" what is the harm in just a little note saying we are still thinking about you? It could really effect their life.

 

[Steve]

I think your experience (if I read it correctly) supports sending some sort of follow up to students. You wanted to take 2 months off and you never returned, even though you had every intention too. Maybe (just maybe) a little nudge would have been enough to get you back in. I am not saying it would work for you, but if a student is already "gone" what is the harm in just a little note saying we are still thinking about you? It could really effect their life.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I was going to take 2 months off, and then the instructor basically creeped my wife out by doing many of the things you guys are suggesting. Had he sent "friendly people by" I think she would have called the police. Ultimately it was a great thing because it prompted me to find a school and martial arts style that suits me much better. It worked out for the best.

There was an article written a while back by a shotokan karate black belt and school owner, with which I am in complete agreement on this very subject. If you have a few minutes, I think it's a terrific read. It's called "How to Quit A Karate School" and while it writes as advice to a student it also has a lot of interesting advice for the school owner, as well.

 

[jks9199]

Sorry I wasn't clear. I was going to take 2 months off, and then the instructor basically creeped my wife out by doing many of the things you guys are suggesting. Had he sent "friendly people by" I think she would have called the police. Ultimately it was a great thing because it prompted me to find a school and martial arts style that suits me much better. It worked out for the best.

There was an article written a while back by a shotokan karate black belt and school owner, with which I am in complete agreement on this very subject. If you have a few minutes, I think it's a terrific read. It's called "How to Quit A Karate School" and while it writes as advice to a student it also has a lot of interesting advice for the school owner, as well.

There's a line that's not very fine, but it's easy to cross, especially for a commercial school with bills to pay. One, maybe two calls/contacts, to see why someone hasn't been around and invite them back is OK. Maybe even 3, if one is a simple form letter/email kind of like the "you haven't posted in a while" messages that MT sends out. But the calls should be pretty direct or focused, not rambling and not under some sort of guise. And if it's a "I'm not interested" type of thing -- take no for no, and no followups.

I could also see a school sending a "back to school" type flier out once or twice a year, inviting former students from the last year or two back...

With regard to the article... I agree in general. You'll note my advice above is really about re-engaging people who drifted away or feel lost -- and hinges on taking no as no. If they just don't want to come back -- that's it. But, in some situations, I think it is courteous to let the instructors know what you're doing. You don't have to make a drama of it; a simple "Hey, I've got some other stuff going on, and won't be back to the class/club for a while" is plenty. And forestalls that drift-away contact.

 

[Kwanjang]

We do seem to give our heart to those who will follow and when they leave they take a piece of our heart With them.

Others have, I think, given some sound advice. Sometimes the season is just over, and we have to concentrate on the ones who have stayed.

I like what MA-Caver said, "The student may leave the teacher...but the teacher never leaves the student."

All things happen for a reason. Maybe if the spirit moves them-they will come back to train with you!

My heart empathizes with you on this one!

 

[AJPerry]

It sounds like you have a really close bond with the family.

I'd suggest dropping in on them for a face to face chat and just to catch up. Cards can be good but they can also seem detached, I have gotten cards from gyms and other organisations when I have taken a break and it's not personal enough.

If your friends, just drop in and see how they are doing. If you think money may be an issue offer a reduced rate or free lessons for the older kids as long as they help out in your classes and maybe some other tasks around the school.

We lost a kid last month just before getting to black belt because she wanted more time to play tennis. It's heart breaking to see them come so far and then just walk away.

I hope it works out for you.

All the best

 

[kidswarrior]

We lost a kid last month just before getting to black belt because she wanted more time to play tennis. It's heart breaking to see them come so far and then just walk away.

Aaarrgh!!!! I know the feeling, and I hate it.