The Welfare System

[MartialArtist68]

THIS is what you're worrying about? Our government is pissing away hundreds of billions in Iraq for a war we never should have gotten into in the first place--including an estimated 500 million to rebuild a prison where our guys have been torturing prisoners--and THIS is what you're worried about?

I realize you probably won't let reality bother you, but here're a few facts you should know: a) welfare takes up less than one and one-half percent of the Federal Budget; b) the considerable majority of those one welfare are women and children; c) the considerable majority are, "white," whatever that means; d) the considerable majority are on welfare less than three years.

Sheesh. No, I do not feel nice about this. Every single religion I've ever heard of enjoins its followers to charity and compassion, and THIS is what keeps you up at night.

Hey, are you worried about the billions our gov sends yearly to, say, Halliburton? To wealthy corporate farms? To, say, Boeing.

Course not. Let's GIT them women and children.

Well, I agree that these are important issues, too, but why not start your own post instead of discussing them here? I'll contribute.

 

[MartialArtist68]

Ditto, PeachMonkey.

I think having compassion as a society for the unfortunate, which takes up a tiny fraction of the budget, compared to letting corporations get off TAX FREE or even RECEIVE EXTRA MONEY from the government (which we are paying for) is ludicrous.

Ever since someone decided corporations have the same rights as individuals, things have gone downhill.

Thank you.

I fully agree with both of you. The way our gov't handles businesses is just another scam designed to help the wealthy and hurt the poor/middle class.

 

[Cruentus]

I might even be for a flat tax, IF by "flat tax" we meant "flat tax on everyone's income. ALL income". That includes payroll taxes, capital gains, interest income, perks, deferred compensation, pension contributions, stock options, etc etc etc etc. And as long as all of those sources of income are taxed for corporations as well individuals.

The "flat tax" as proposed by conservatives such as Steve Forbes is really a "flat tax" on payroll income, which would mean that the wealthy would pay virtually no tax whatsoever, and the working classes would carry a devastating tax burden.

Yes...I mean on all income...but we may be able to afford not taxing people over 65 with less then 500K net worth; which would help retirees

Yours,

Old Man Crotchet

 

[Makalakumu]

I fully agree with both of you. The way our gov't handles businesses is just another scam designed to help the wealthy and hurt the poor/middle class.

I hear this attitude expressed again and again. I just can't figure out where all of the republicans are coming from...in terms of numbers? How the hell do they do it? How do they trick so many people?

For Christsakes, wellfare is the redheaded stepchild of the government. It's been beaten on so much that it is actually one of the most efficient of government programs. Comparitively with other government programs, wellfare programs waste a miniscule amount of money...

Yet, when you hear it from the conservatives, you'd think that no one works in this country...Wellfare State my A$$...

 

[PeachMonkey]

Yes...I mean on all income...but we may be able to afford not taxing people over 65 with less then 500K net worth; which would help retirees

Agreed. In fact, I tend to be for extremely progressive taxes... I'm one of those "class-warfare, wealth-redistribution" socialist types.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I hear this attitude expressed again and again. I just can't figure out where all of the republicans are coming from...in terms of numbers? How the hell do they do it? How do they trick so many people?

For Christsakes, wellfare is the redheaded stepchild of the government. It's been beaten on so much that it is actually one of the most efficient of government programs. Comparitively with other government programs, wellfare programs waste a miniscule amount of money...

Yet, when you hear it from the conservatives, you'd think that no one works in this country...Wellfare State my A$$...

I completely agree - although your post (with the metaphor) made me laugh as well.

 

[BlueDragon1981]

This is a touchy subject for me. I recieve both food stamps and cash assistance. Trust me though if I could survive without it I would. The politics and crap you have to go through for it, the paper work, the redicule from others ("you welfare bums", I have heard that a few times.), and a bunch of other mumbo jumbo is sometimes to much.

I am going to college, am married, and have 3 kids. Many people do not know that and judge me because I'm on assistance. That is not right. I am trying. Trying very hard, which my doctor has told me is causing very stressful conditions. My health has declined because of all I am doing to get off of welfare. You see they don't always make it easy to get off of the system. The rules and regulations cause a lot of stress also. They practically want to know when you go to the bathroom. (not quite that bad but close)

I also see the other side. I have seen people abuse the system. It urks me because it gives me a bad name because people judge people on it in one group. Of course they judge us by the bad but not the good. I have tried and tried to better my situation but can't. The economy also is not improving like some of the white house officials say it is. Specially in the area I live. Over the past two year over 3000 jobs have been lost. This is for an area that is not that big and already had a shortage of jobs.

I work at Subway but of course since I make money there they lower everything for the assistance. Which in turn does not get me anywhere with anything. Other than having to use my time for work that does not pay that much when I could be out there looking for a better job, or trying to get ahead for my college corses. I have no time to train anymore, by the time I get to talk on this forum it is usually 1 am. So I'm ready for bed. So it is not all just handouts to everyone. It allows us to live yes, but not very well.

Any honest person should not abuse the system but many people are not honest. You however would have the rules changed and that would hurt the people who are trying. It is clearly a no win situation.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Good luck and keep looking ahead, BlueDragon1981. I can't imagine how tough it is with a family, school, and looking for work as well.

I'm thinking of you.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Well...they should all get jobs!

Sincerely,
Phil Night
CEO, Nike

Thats very funny; however, you touch on a good point. Our laws prevent teenagers from learning how to do a good days work; therefore they are almost un-hirable when in thier twenties because they have no work ethic. Then we have the gaul to look down on those that turn to the government for help.
Sean

 

[PeachMonkey]

BlueDragon, I wish you the best and that things will get better for you and yours.

When people bash welfare recipients, I am reminded of the struggles and sacrifices of so many people in your situation (for the unfamiliar, I recommend Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By In America").

 

[PeachMonkey]

Our laws prevent teenagers from learning how to do a good days work; therefore they are almost un-hirable when in thier twenties because they have no work ethic.

Which laws are you referring to? I worked in my boarding school's kitchens from the ages of 11 to 14, and worked as a telemarketer, car washer, busboy, and waiter from 16 until I entered my current career. I could not have attended college, driven a car, had spending money, or helped support my family otherwise.

If you're referring to child labor laws, those are designed to *protect* teenagers from being exploited by companies, and to leave them time to go to school and do homework.

Work ethics can be learned in the classroom, at the kitchen table with the books, doing chores, and in many other ways. Teenagers have had to transition from limited work hours to the "adult" world for decades... children who don't develop a work ethic in these ways will not be any better off if they're forced to work many hours in the day.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

But again, since when has raising taxes on big business ever helped jobs? Another example, is now gov't is going to tax company stock options. So instead of footing the bill, they will just cut the program. I think the same cuts will come down on the people if tax rates go up just for business.

How about getting them to pay the taxes that they're supposed to pay. They're placing their corporations off shore and paying, in effect, nothing, and it gives them unfair advantages when competing with a U.S. based company.

http://www.theroyalgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040619/BUSINESS/106190067

As Feisty points out, the government hands out government subsidies so that corporations like McDonald's can expand. That's our money they're using. I believe McDonald's has enough of our money. I like their fries, so they're likely to get more. Incidentally, the reference she seeks was, I believe, in Fast Food Nation, by Eric Schlosser.

The President of Boeing has lamented that the U.S. is giving subsidies to Airbus, a Scandanavian company and Boeing's hottest competitor:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/174120_boeingairbus20.html

I think Airbus can manage by itself...its the industry leader. They got some of my money last Spring when I flew to Denmark. I like Denmark, so they'll get more. I don't need your tax dollars to help fly me over there, thanks.


Wal-Mart got a billion in subsidies. A BILLION.

http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/24/news/fortune500/walmart_subsidies/

They're currently under a class action suit for not paying women fairly, or promoting them when they were qualified to manage. Our tax dollars at work. What? We didn't buy enough frozen pork tenderloins from them?


BACK TO THE ISSUE...I think you will see a big change in the Welfare infrastructure in the coming twenty years. The Democrats realize the need for change. That said, since the year I was born, the poverty rates across the nation have been halved. Job Corps, and incredibly effective program, had much to do with that, I suspect. Johnson's Great Society and Nixon's follow up programs did quite a bit to reduce poverty...and crime...which is half the rate it was in 1973. We need to do more. We will.


Regards,


Steve

 

[BlueDragon1981]

Thanks for the words of encourgagement. It is very appreciated. I will never give up...look at my signature...some good quotes there. Support and encouragement always helps though and I thank you again.

I think that our country needs to look at its fiscal policy...You see instead of giving money to other countries why not fix your own first and pay off your own debts. George Bush is getting us into a hole without creating any new jobs. Like he claimed he was going to do. Not to mention he is only trying to get done what his dad couldn't. I think a normal person who is not caught up in big business or have political backgrounds but good courage and stregth should run for president. That won't happen politician won't let it.