The Ultimate Knife...

[SFC JeffJ]

They do still make the K-Bar. On one hand I have my dad's, European Theater, My father in laws, South Pacific, and mine. I also have some commemorative ones celebrating various events in military history. Korean War, Viet Nam War, and others. Trust me, they are still out there. The military just doesn't carry them into combat anymore. It's so sad........

I have my Dad's K-Bar that he carried in Korea in the 2nd Ranger Company. Have a couple of others as well.

When I went down range, I usually carried one of them, and on my last couple of deployments I added a CS Vietnam 'hawk as well.

I bought a Gerber Mk II back in oh, '88 or '89 but I thought the quality wasn't nearly as good as the ones I handled that were made in the early '70s.

Jeff

 

[tellner]

You can get them cheaper. And decent ones are in the $4-500 range. As for comfort, well, it's a knife. It's meant to be used. I gave my old Silat teacher one. He horrified the collectors by modifying the handle, knocking off a couple sharp corners, indexing it and *gasp* putting it in a sheath and using it all the time. Remember that Bo Randall got his real start making them for servicemen who were heading overseas.

 

[exile]

I really like the look of that Recon Tanto, for sure. Somehow, though, I don't think I will be Allowed to purchase one...

Huh...why not?

Hard to explain. Cultural difference, let's say. My wife is from Vancouver, B.C. Paradise on earth, lowest crime rate per capita in the world among big cities, by some reckoning (more so when she was growing up, but that's when people's views of the world form). A benign universe all around you. Mild climate year-round, alpine mountains seventy miles from the coast...

I on the other hand partly grew up and then went back to university and graduate school in New York City, lived on Morningside Heights, went down with my friends to Chinatown on the subways for dinner at 2a.m.... we all carried weapons. Don't know if you guys have ever heard of the K-55 knife; not fancy but very practical. We all carried them. Mine was strapped in open position on my wrist with rubber bands under my shirt sleeves for fast access should that become, um, urgently necessary. Half the people in the City carried them, it seemed like. My best friend Art's uncle was a NYC cop, and Art had managed to acquire a blackjack and a regulation short-stick billy club, along with an air pistol that was indistinguishable at first glance from a Colt .45; all of those went down to Chinatown with us in a sports bag that we carried, along with a bike chain tied with leather cords like a belt around my waist. Apparently it was legal that way, though not if it had been concealed in my pocket.

Let's just say that so far as weapons are concerned, we don't exactly have a meeting of the minds. Different cultural world-views, eh? Vive la différence, I suppose... I've got my Wagner RB knife; for the time being I'll be content with that...:wink1:

 

[Cruentus]

Exile,

I understand, in that my mom is that way and I had to grow up with that. Completely Ironic considering that many others in my family carried guns and knives and so forth. I guess having a few family members involved in shootings made her go the opposite direction.

I am luckly that my wife isn't that way though. She is more of the serial killer type and is far more frieghtening then I am. I carry weapons to prevent myself from being killed and eaten in my own home! :lol:

Well, just tell her it's an outdoorsman's tool, not a weapon...

 

[exile]

Exile,

I understand, in that my mom is that way and I had to grow up with that. Completely Ironic considering that many others in my family carried guns and knives and so forth. I guess having a few family members involved in shootings made her go the opposite direction.

Yes, that would do it... to some extent, it's denial, I've learned. If you don't prepare for possible violence against you, it won't happen. Seems like magical thinking to me, but violence, and the reality of it, is very hard for most people to come to grips with. Who wants to live in a world where weapons like the Recon Tanto or the Wagner RB might actually make the difference?

I am luckly that my wife isn't that way though. She is more of the serial killer type and is far more frieghtening then I am. I carry weapons to prevent myself from being killed and eaten in my own home! :lol:

Heh heh... A Livia Soprano in the making! Gotcha. The thing is, my wife can be utterly scary when she gets angry... maybe she doesn see why weapons are necessary because she's her own best weapon... Heaven help any house invader who crossed her path, is all I can say.

Well, just tell her it's an outdoorsman's tool, not a weapon...

Good advice, I just might give that a try, C. It would be worth a go, anyway... that Recon Tanto is awfully tempting...

 

[shesulsa]

SRK is sweet, and fits all the criteria really like the CS recon tanto that I mentioned before, just with a drop point and an inch shorter rather then the tanto. But still pretty sweet. I think they did a good job with the retention sheath on those series of tactical knives.

I've used mine a bunch and it still has a sweet edge. I'm not in the military nor do I have occasion to use it as often as it's made for. I've stripped some bark with it, cut up smaller pieces of wood, plastic, leather, rope (heh - like butter) dropped it a few times on purpose to see how it held up. The snap strap works just right, I think - if I had to draw it quickly it would be no problem, it feels comfortable in my hand .... Yessir, I like it!

 

[RBaddorf]

The SOG is nice, feels good in my hand and has the non-slip grip. As far as holding up to abuse, I don't know (I got it after I retired). The two best knives I've ever had for holding up to abuse in the field, (and I'm talking lots of abuse, digging up dud morter rounds, hacking up demo charge cans to make mini-demo charges, digging around bomb fuzes etc) were 1. a thick full size dive knife with the flat tip that was curved (like a spoon) for abalone http://www.cybaqua.co.uk/acatalog/diveblade.jpg sort of like the bottom one here only bigger and the tip curved to one side. and 2. an Ek fighting knife, couldn't hurt it http://www.cdpetronisinc.com/images/Ek_Knife_and_Original_Sheath_1_.JPG

felt bad about doing it to the Ek, but it was the only knife I had with me on a two week range sweep of Zulu impact area at Camp Pendleton. Was finally able to put an edge back on it though.

 

[RBaddorf]

P.S.

For those who miss the Gerber Mk2, check out the Ek M4 at http://www.ekknife.com/index.html

 

[RBaddorf]

Anyone know how to upload a picture?

 

[shesulsa]

Anyone know how to upload a picture?

You need to be a supporting member to do that.

 

[RBaddorf]

You need to be a supporting member to do that.

OK thanks.

 

[Cruentus]

P.S.

For those who miss the Gerber Mk2, check out the Ek M4 at http://www.ekknife.com/index.html

Those EK knives are friggin' nice, bro. They are a little pricey to ruin in the feild, maybe, but you really are getting a lot of bang for the buck with those. At $250 you are definatily getting what you paid for!

 

[Cruentus]

Also, I like that fact that the sheaths that come with the EK's take into account noise discipline and light reflection.

 

[exile]

Very nice-looking knifes, those EKs. Still would take the Recon Tanto if I had to pick one... well, there's the Randalls. But in a sense, there isn't the Randalls—your earliest delivery if you order now will be in 2011. I just can't see waiting four years for a knife... I mean, maybe. I guess after a couple of years you'd forget you'd ever ordered it and then when it arrived it would be like found wealth or something, but it does seem bit of a wait... people get Lambourghinis after less of a wait than that!

 

[Cruentus]

OK... I'll revive this thread;

How about the ultimate Law Enforcement knife?

I listed my criteria and a suggestion already. Any other's?

 

[Cruentus]

Also, for anyone interested, I was curious and went jogging for a few miles with the dog through the snow last night with my CS Recon Tanto on my belt and some other gear. As it turns out, there was no rattle, meaning that the recon tanto sheath is good for noise discipline as well. I assumed as much, considering it went to combat with my buddy who was doing long range recon patrols, and he certianly had to be concerned with such issues, but it was still nice to test this baby out myself.

 

[exile]

Can't talk to LEO issues, Cruentus, as that's not my line of work—be good to get Drac's or jks' views here, eh? But I can report that I lucked out; for once my timing was good. Ordered my Wagner/Böker tactical about three weeks ago, got it last week, and now their site says it's sold out, till at least the beginning of next month. I suspect it's going to be a bit longer than that.

Am sitting here admiring it and thinking, `yes... act on impulse'. If you see it and you like it, buy it!

 

[arnisandyz]

Paul,

Your list on the LE knife is pretty comprehensive. I just have a few additions...some knives have a slit cut in the handle so the blade can be used while closed. This would be helpful if you need to cut a seatbelt from a struggling driver, rather than trying to get an opened blade between a thrashing person and belt, you can safely slip the closed knife in position. A partially serrated blade would be helpful as well, preferably right where the slit is located. In this vain, some knives also have a glass breaker built into the pommel which could also be used as a loaded fist strike/control tool without deploying the blade. As you said, the LE knife would probably be used primarily as a utility knife first and a defensive knife second.

 

[Cruentus]

Some good points. Andy, I would say partially or fully serrated blade would be a good choice for LE.

As far as the handle slit, I have the SOG Trident which has one: http://sogknives.com/store/sogtrident.html

The knife was OK, but the handle slit wasn't that useable. I don't think I could cut anything larger then a paracord with it. It seems like a good concept, but I just wasn't seeing great results with that feature in this model. Furthermore, I didn't suggest this model because I felt that the opening joint was a bit weak, and the blade a bit thin feeling. I questioned it's durability in comparison to other knives. The design is great, however.

One feature that was cool, and would be cool for LE is the safety feature on the trident. You could actually "turn on the safety" when it is on your belt. This would be good as it would hinder a perp from using you knife if they obtained it during a struggle. I think that retention is more important when considering a LE knife, rather then deployment in a fight.

I think that a glass breaker built into the pummel would be a great feature. I would say more so for breaking glass rather then fighting, however. I say this because I think hitting someone with a closed folder is akin to pistol whipping someone with your gun handle. The force continuum still goes up into the lethal area even if the gun isn't being shot or if the blade on the knife isn't being used. So, I would say that LE should stick to less lethal force tool and actual blunt weapons like ASP rather then compromise their job through an attempt to use a knife, a lethal tool, in a less lethal manner.

 

[avm247]

I have a Mad Dog ATAK 2 (one of the last serial #'d with Kalguard finish). It fits very nicely right or left handed.

I also have two custom, 0-1 tool steel, blued 6" SOG bowie knives, patterned after original Vietnam era issued bowies that were made by Tim Wuethrich. The originals were part of Mike Silvey's collection. One is 1/4" the other about 3/16" in thickness. Both are EXTREMELY sharp. Having originally been designed for the smaller stature of the indigenous personnel in SOG recon, the handles are abit small...smaller that the current SOG company releases, but they are authentic (and truth be told, too good...kinda like an "overrestored car").

As far as fighting knives go I'd probably loot to the Mad Dog ATAK 2 or a Randall Model 1 or maybe a Randall Model 14.

As far as folders go, I loved my Benchmade AFCK. Alas I lost it. I'm still looking for a replacement, but alternate between a Benchmade Griptilian and Spyderco Endura (one fully serrated and one regular blade). I've always thought the AFCK was the best folder out there and am having a hard time finding an adequate replacement.