The TSA And Racial Profiling

[Cryozombie]

Or so goes the rationale.

Did I leave anyone out?

Yeah you forgot about Mc's like me, who drink to much then start fights and beat our wives.

 

[Wo Fat]

I lived in Cambridge for almost two years, and spent a fair amount of time in Boston. I liked it. That said, as a fairly well traveled, black New Yorker, it's easily the northeast city where I encountered the most prejudice-and I've actually encountered far less in my visits to some southern cities, so I'll stand by my statement.

As to profiling, just becuase everyone does it, doesn't make it right.

As to 9/11, while I can understand the sentiment, it likely would not have accomplished anything-"Arabs" weren't on the radar, really-there was no TSA, just "rent a cop" security (not that the TSA is any different)-and those guys had made efforts to fit in.

Here's Mohammed Atta, the so-called "leader" of the 9/11 criminals, on 9/11:

View attachment 17116

Probably didn't raise any more eyebrows than his box-cutter did.


More's the pity, though: these guys were on our radar, and we just weren't paying enough attention.

As a well-traveled Black Californian, I have to agree. The experiences I had in Boston were memorable, but I also did have to deal with a bit of prejudice here and there. As much as the South? Probably not a fair comparison as I didn't actually live in Boston. But then, dealing with racial prejudice is burdensome no matter where it happens.

 

[ballen0351]

I lived in Cambridge for almost two years, and spent a fair amount of time in Boston. I liked it. That said, as a fairly well traveled, black New Yorker, it's easily the northeast city where I encountered the most prejudice-and I've actually encountered far less in my visits to some southern cities, so I'll stand by my statement.

As to profiling, just becuase everyone does it, doesn't make it right.

As to 9/11, while I can understand the sentiment, it likely would not have accomplished anything-"Arabs" weren't on the radar, really-there was no TSA, just "rent a cop" security (not that the TSA is any different)-and those guys had made efforts to fit in.

Here's Mohammed Atta, the so-called "leader" of the 9/11 criminals, on 9/11:

View attachment 17116

Probably didn't raise any more eyebrows than his box-cutter did.


More's the pity, though: these guys were on our radar, and we just weren't paying enough attention.

They fit in so well one of the hijackers was pulled over for speeding by a Maryland state trooper on Sept 9th and atta himself had a warrant from Fla for failing to pay a fine in traffic court. These guys just were not on the radar at least in local law enforcement circles

 

[Wo Fat]

They fit in so well one of the hijackers was pulled over for speeding by a Maryland state trooper on Sept 9th and atta himself had a warrant from Fla for failing to pay a fine in traffic court. These guys just were not on the radar at least in local law enforcement circles

Apologies if this is a dumb question. Is "fitting in" still a reliable means of ruling out suspicious persons, or do you in law enforcement have to resist that tendency and make a conscious effort to observe people who do "fit in"?

 

[granfire]

Apologies if this is a dumb question. Is "fitting in" still a reliable means of ruling out suspicious persons, or do you in law enforcement have to resist that tendency and make a conscious effort to observe people who do "fit in"?

Huh? what?

By laws of averages and human nature 'fitting in' extremely heightens your chances of going unnoticed.
If those guys had worn their ethnic dress, would they have made it into flight school?

Although, getting traffic tickets is not the way to stay unnoticed, though - back then - it didn't hurt, obviously....and frankly, with all the new laws in place and the Mickey mouse Brigade guarding our borders...I don't think a ticket for even aggravated speeding would be a blip on the radar 3 states over....

 

[Wo Fat]

Huh? what?

By laws of averages and human nature 'fitting in' extremely heightens your chances of going unnoticed.
If those guys had worn their ethnic dress, would they have made it into flight school?

You emphasize the thrust of my question. Since "fitting in" raises the chances of a criminal or terrorist's chances of carrying out their attack, would it make sense for law enforcement to be conscious of people who "fit it"? You said it yourself: "those guys" fit right in at flight school.

 

[ballen0351]

We need to keep an open mind about everyone. As soon as we focus on one "type" criminals change the pattern. So we need to look at everyone. I've often found when I have made up my mind about someone or a situation before knowing all the facts I'm.usually wrong.

 

[CanuckMA]

And all the best sandwich shops

But the best bagel shops are owned by Filipino.

 

[ballen0351]

But the best bagel shops are owned by Filipino.

And the best donut shop I've ever been too is owns by a couple from Thailand. You get donuts before noon and Thai food after noon

 

[elder999]

And the best donut shop I've ever been too is owns by a couple from Thailand. You get donuts before noon and Thai food after noon

I would be one fat cop. :lol:

 

[granfire]

I would be one fat cop. :lol:

Bowling for perps?

 

[CanuckMA]

We need to keep an open mind about everyone. As soon as we focus on one "type" criminals change the pattern. So we need to look at everyone. I've often found when I have made up my mind about someone or a situation before knowing all the facts I'm.usually wrong.

One of the effective method at Ben Gurion is to pull people from a line to question them. While other undercover watch thereaction of those around who have not been selected.

 

[Tgace]

And the best donut shop I've ever been too is owns by a couple from Thailand. You get donuts before noon and Thai food after noon

Annapolis?

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[ballen0351]

Annapolis?

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Yeah best donuts in the state

 

[Tgace]

Yeah best donuts in the state

Small world...I'm returning my daughter to St Johns next week. She was talking about that shop just the other day.

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[MJS]

Shouldn't be too much of a surprise. Racial profiling isn't limited to the airports; it's also a fact of law enforcement life on the streets. Some say that it's not about the "race" of the various groups targeted, but that it's just good common sense. Middle Easterners tend to commit terrorist acts, Latinos/Hispanics tend to run drugs, and Blacks tend to be generally criminally inclined. Or so goes the rationale.

Did I leave anyone out?

No, you're right....it happens all over. There was a big issue not long ago, with a PD here in CT, regarding RP. I dont know if every PD does this, but the cops where I work, fill out a paper every time they do a MV stop, with the race, sex, etc, of the driver. Supposedly someone is supposed to review them to ensure RP isn't happening.

 

[ballen0351]

Small world...I'm returning my daughter to St Johns next week. She was talking about that shop just the other day.

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No kidding that is cool. You will be in my neck of the woods

 

[ballen0351]

No, you're right....it happens all over. There was a big issue not long ago, with a PD here in CT, regarding RP. I dont know if every PD does this, but the cops where I work, fill out a paper every time they do a MV stop, with the race, sex, etc, of the driver. Supposedly someone is supposed to review them to ensure RP isn't happening.

Yeah we have been doing them for the last 10 years at least. All it did was make officers target a certain race so their stats showed equal distribution so if I stopped two cars and they both happened to be driven by a minority I'd then go look for 4 white people to even out my numbers its was a joke to me. I stop people because I see a violation not because of what color the driver is

 

[Wo Fat]

No, you're right....it happens all over. There was a big issue not long ago, with a PD here in CT, regarding RP. I dont know if every PD does this, but the cops where I work, fill out a paper every time they do a MV stop, with the race, sex, etc, of the driver. Supposedly someone is supposed to review them to ensure RP isn't happening.

I've heard of several studies that have concluded that Blacks, Latinos and some Asians are stopped or detained at a higher frequency, and yet are arrested *less* than Whites who are stopped or detained for similar reasons. It would seem then, that the remedy for that is pretty much what ballen0351 just stated: cops have to "go out of their way" to find Whites to pull over so that things appear balanced.

Seems to me that if we balanced our presumptions, then we could balance out the stops/pull-overs. But it seems that balance may be too much of a burden?

 

[David43515]

You know what I look for most often. A car with 3 or more white people usually 1 female with tags that come back to a town at least 35 min away sitting in a grocery store parking lot but not going inside 9 out of 10 tines they are waiting for dope

This is why I like the older original term "statistical profiling". If the majority of crime in a certain area are done by a certain group (either race or age group) then they do warrant a little more attention. As long as probable cause is met and people's rights are respected I've got little problem with it. I know that I get more attention from the police and security when I dress a certain way or when I wear my hair a certain way. I accept that as long as they don't violate the law or my rights.