The true history

[terryl965]

I'm about done with the book I'm writing about my TKD experiences and I was going to add a brief History on TKD origins, but here lies the problem what seperate facts from fiction about TKD. I know my take and which way I was given by some influencial people but I thought I would see where everybody else is on this subject.

 

[exile]

I'm about done with the book I'm writing about my TKD experiences and I was going to add a brief History on TKD origins, but here lies the problem what seperate facts from fiction about TKD. I know my take and which way I was given by some influencial people but I thought I would see where everybody else is on this subject.

A book?? Terry, that's outstanding! When will you be done with it, and have you contacted any publishers about it?

As far as the history of TKD goes... boy, you are putting a big fat powder keg in front of us and inviting us to toss matches at it....:uhohh:

 

[terryl965]

A book?? Terry, that's outstanding! When will you be done with it, and have you contacted any publishers about it?

As far as the history of TKD goes... boy, you are putting a big fat powder keg in front of us and inviting us to toss matches at it....:uhohh:

well I have been working on it for about two years and I'm done with the technical side of all the kicks and hands strike as well as my understanding of each and every poomsae.

I'm not trying to light a fire but would love to include some initial history of TKD and thought it wouyld be great to add in some of our members views of course with there permission.

I'm using my wife publisher she write poetry and childern boks nothing famous yet but maybe one day.

So do you have any history of TKD you would like to add here

 

[Kacey]

A book?? Terry, that's outstanding! When will you be done with it, and have you contacted any publishers about it?

As far as the history of TKD goes... boy, you are putting a big fat powder keg in front of us and inviting us to toss matches at it....:uhohh:

Uh... pretty much what exile said. I would talk to Master Eisenhart as a start, I think - or possibly comb through some of his previous posts that have that type of information in them; he seems to have quite a range of knowledge, diverse enough to avoid the slant most of us were given based on what our seniors were told.

 

[exile]

well I have been working on it for about two years and I'm done with the technical side of all the kicks and hands strike as well as my understanding of each and every poomsae.

I can't wait!! If you have a pre-order list, tell me how to get on it...

So do you have any history of TKD you would like to add here

I have some views, based on the work of the best MA historians I can get my hands on and my own take on the technical content of TKD as reflected in its forms. I'm sure that's also the case for most of the regular TKD fora contributors. I'll try to organize my thoughts and post them on this thread, but it needs some care and I don't want to shoot from the hip... will definitely have something in response to your query, but maybe not till later this week.

It's gonna be a controversial subject. But that itself is worth reporting and exploring.

 

[terryl965]

I can't wait!! If you have a pre-order list, tell me how to get on it...



I have some views, based on the work of the best MA historians I can get my hands on and my own take on the technical content of TKD as reflected in its forms. I'm sure that's also the case for most of the regular TKD fora contributors. I'll try to organize my thoughts and post them on this thread, but it needs some care and I don't want to shoot from the hip... will definitely have something in response to your query, but maybe not till later this week.

It's gonna be a controversial subject. But that itself is worth reporting and exploring.

I agree with you but controversal subject is what we live to learn by for every person opinion another person has the opposite opinion, that is what will make my book different, in the fact that I have taken into account other people views about techniques and added my insight to those same techniques.

As far as pre-order no I have no set timeframe, but most likely looking around a christmas release.

Thank you for your future insight

 

[terryl965]

Uh... pretty much what exile said. I would talk to Master Eisenhart as a start, I think - or possibly comb through some of his previous posts that have that type of information in them; he seems to have quite a range of knowledge, diverse enough to avoid the slant most of us were given based on what our seniors were told.

Kacey I would take you up on the offer but as you know I'm married and my wife has her master in english so she is having a go at proof reading everything. She has change so much since I still write like a heck from the country, wait I'am a heck from the country.
But I will send you a copy before it goes to print to look over the wifey said that would be ok with her, the more that proofs it the better she says.

 

[Kacey]

Kacey I would take you up on the offer but as you know I'm married and my wife has her master in english so she is having a go at proof reading everything. She has change so much since I still write like a heck from the country, wait I'am a heck from the country.
But I will send you a copy before it goes to print to look over the wifey said that would be ok with her, the more that proofs it the better she says.

I understand completely - my father still proofreads my homework (grad school) because he is a librarian, and an English professor - BA and MA in English, MA and PhD in Library Science... but I would love to look at the proofs - your wife is correct that more people make it less likely that serious errors (and even minor errors) will be missed prior to publication.

 

[searcher]

Here is a thought. You could list several different histories and make the statement that each has their individual truths and embelishments. Then let the reader make their own decision. As important as it is to know where we have come from it is just as important to know where we are at and to where we are going. Focus your history more on your own and that of your instructor and less on the "big picture."

 

[tellner]

Dakin Burdick has already done the legwork on TKD history. Look at his stuff in JAMA and as it is referenced elsewhere. Many myths are exploded. Much made clear. Come to think of it, look up Taekyon in JAMA for more mythbusting.

 

[terryl965]

Dakin Burdick has already done the legwork on TKD history. Look at his stuff in JAMA and as it is referenced elsewhere. Many myths are exploded. Much made clear. Come to think of it, look up Taekyon in JAMA for more mythbusting.

I'm not looking to bust anybody ideal, it is more like trying to give a different approach to the different views on TKD history and keeping to a sense of true niew points. I know what I'm asking is hard and we all know there are several houndreds realistic views but we can bring them together for a common sense of truth.

 

[terryl965]

Here is a thought. You could list several different histories and make the statement that each has their individual truths and embelishments. Then let the reader make their own decision. As important as it is to know where we have come from it is just as important to know where we are at and to where we are going. Focus your history more on your own and that of your instructor and less on the "big picture."

This is what I;am planning on doing in a sense anyway just going at it from a different perspective. I know plenty of GM that have there story and views but I would like to focus on ordinary folks and there thought about the history the way it was explained to them

 

[tellner]

If you're looking for truth you're going to find that what many people believe just plain isn't supported by the facts. Doesn't matter what field you're investigating. In the case of TKD I recommend Dr. Burdick's work because he's done a fine job of research.

 

[exile]

If you're looking for truth you're going to find that what many people believe just plain isn't supported by the facts. Doesn't matter what field you're investigating. In the case of TKD I recommend Dr. Burdick's work because he's done a fine job of research.

Todd, do you happen to have a reference to Burdick's JAMA paper(s)? I'd just need the year(s)... thanks for any help you can give me.

Steve Henning also has a very good, compressed but comprehensive overview, in the 2000 volume I think, of the (non)connection between ancient and contempory KMAs in JAMA in which he reviews the evidence of virtually every relevant bit of documentation, both Korean and Chinese/Japanese, that anyone knows about. I have a feeling that he and Burdick will be on the same page, maybe the same line.

 

[terryl965]

If you're looking for truth you're going to find that what many people believe just plain isn't supported by the facts. Doesn't matter what field you're investigating. In the case of TKD I recommend Dr. Burdick's work because he's done a fine job of research.

I would love to read his work where can I find it

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Hey Terry a book, that is great! As to the history of TKD I think I would have a small chapter outlining Korean Martial Arts before the last Japanese Occupation and then the resurgence once the occupation was over. You could talk about the founding of the various Training Halls and how they eventually came under the name of Tae Kwon Do and then you could explain how they eventually turned into the WTF. Honest, factual and to the point. Very few books have done that and yours would be one of the first. If you need any help let me know as my library on Korean arts is pretty large.

 

[terryl965]

Hey Terry a book, that is great! As to the history of TKD I think I would have a small chapter outlining Korean Martial Arts before the last Japanese Occupation and then the resurgence once the occupation was over. You could talk about the founding of the various Training Halls and how they eventually came under the name of Tae Kwon Do and then you could explain how they eventually turned into the WTF. Honest, factual and to the point. Very few books have done that and yours would be one of the first. If you need any help let me know as my library on Korean arts is pretty large.

Brian That would be great, I really did not want anybody knowing about the book but figure I would test the water here and try to get some real everyday evidemce as to how it was to come about.
Been working on this since 2004 so it has been a long haul. Thanks as always any help is appreciated

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Brian That would be great, I really did not want anybody knowing about the book but figure I would test the water here and try to get some real everyday evidemce as to how it was to come about.
Been working on this since 2004 so it has been a long haul. Thanks as always any help is appreciated

I know all about the long haul in writing a book. I have one that is now all set for the cover work and then bingo it will be ready. (maybe two or three month) My third is halfway done. Writing can be brutal but fortunately if you are pasionate about what you are doing the rewards are simply great!!!

I think your book will be great.

 

[terryl965]

I know all about the long haul in writing a book. I have one that is now all set for the cover work and then bingo it will be ready. (maybe two or three month) My third is halfway done. Writing can be brutal but fortunately if you are pasionate about what you are doing the rewards are simply great!!!

I think your book will be great.

Weather it is a success or not I wanted something out there that was different and is more to the ordinary man or woman then a bunch of political BS.
So thank you again

 

[exile]

Hey Terry a book, that is great! As to the history of TKD I think I would have a small chapter outlining Korean Martial Arts before the last Japanese Occupation and then the resurgence once the occupation was over. You could talk about the founding of the various Training Halls and how they eventually came under the name of Tae Kwon Do and then you could explain how they eventually turned into the WTF. Honest, factual and to the point. Very few books have done that and yours would be one of the first. If you need any help let me know as my library on Korean arts is pretty large.

The tricky part here—and one that I think is absolutely crucial—is answering the questions, what was the technical content of the fighting systems taught by the kwans? What was the form of the curriculum through which that technical content was communicated to students? A huge amount hinges on this. All of the original kwan founders studied karate in Japan under Okinawan masters, becoming proficient at the Dan level in all cases I know about. What they taught to their students in the kwans they founded presumably would be extremely heavily influenced by just what they learned from Funakoshi or his senior students, or Kanken and his senior students, or some of the other masters of the time (mostly it seems to have been Shotokan and Shudokan that the kwan founders studies). Because of well-documented changes in karate as practiced in mid-to-late 19th c. Okinawa on the one hand and early 20c. on the other, we don't know exactly how much of the combat content encoded in kata were taught to the kwan founders, even though we have many surviving kata, clearly quite old or based (like the Pinan/Heian series) on quite old forms; Funakoshi suggests that the content of karate had become diluted at that point, and there's good reason to believe that's true.

But what's still hazy is just how much was lost and how much survived in the instruction that the kwan founders received. That's our baseline for the early content of the kwan-era curricula. The problem is, there's very little documentation that we have (or at least, that I've encountered) laying out just what that baseline consists of. Clearly it was quite different from the current KKW curriculum, influenced as heavily as it has been over the past decade or two by WTF sparring standards (my view, at least).

That's why the content of the kwan era curricula is so important—it basically tells us where contemporary TKD came from. How much that was taught there came from indigenous Korean MA systems (to the extent that it makes sense to talk about purely Korean MAs, given the work of Steve Henning and others on the Chinese origins of early fighting systems in Korea)? If we knew what the early kwan curricula looked like, we could tell. Master McLain has posted some extremely valuable information here and in our MT magazine, with highly suggestive and crucial comments from his own Gm. about this question; we need much more information of this kind before we can even begin to provide a detailed picture of kwan training in the 1940s and 50s.

This would be a good place for people who know about this period to start pooling their information. I think a lot of questions about the direction and content of TKD as a combat system could begin to get at least partial answers if we had a better idea of what the resources are in the movements and skill we were, and continue to be, taught, and my feeling is that a detailed understanding of TKD history would unlock many myseries about those resources...