The Study

[Bob Hubbard]

Is closed until further notice.

 

[Adept]

Why?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Because we need time to process the large amounts of pointless moderator reports that a couple of people were generating due to their inability to debate in a civil manner, follow our rules, or differentiate between a personal attack and a sweeping generality.

Our current plan is to reopen the study within a few days, but under new rules that we are currently working out.

 

[MA-Caver]

Because we need time to process the large amounts of pointless moderator reports that a couple of people were generating due to their inability to debate in a civil manner, follow our rules, or differentiate between a personal attack and a sweeping generality.

Our current plan is to reopen the study within a few days, but under new rules that we are currently working out.

Hopefully it'll work this time...

Will all former posts/threads still be available but "locked" ??

 

[Touch Of Death]

This Is An Outrage!

 

[mrhnau]

This Is An Outrage!

slight typo there...

"this is an outage!"

Fundamentally, its Bob's board

 

[theletch1]

This Is An Outrage!

Nah, the outrage was that complete adults couldn't carry on civil conversations without resorting to personal attacks, racist comments, baiting and constant "He's picking on me!" finger pointing. The Study makes up a small portion of the forum as a whole but made up probably 80% or better of the reports that staff had to deal with. There's a problem there. Even worse was the fact that 90% of the reports that we had coming in from the Study were generated either because of or by 1% of the posters in that section. As Bob said, we're hoping to re-open the Study in a very short while but the rules there will be geared toward allowing the 99% of posters who are capable of behaving as if they actually met the 16 year old minimum age requirement of the board to carry on what have, in the past, been very insightful conversations. Ok, I'll get off my soap box now.

 

[Touch Of Death]

slight typo there...

"this is an outage!"

Fundamentally, its Bob's board

I know, but its the section I am most active in, according to the statistics provided. The bad apples tend to weed themselves out.
Sean

 

[Lisa]

I know, but its the section I am most active in, according to the statistics provided. The bad apples tend to weed themselves out.
Sean

And we are trying to find a solution that is fair to everyone and can be moderated appropriately. I just wish people would learn to use the ignore function and the RTM button appropriately. We are all adults here after all.

 

[Tames D]

Prolly should be kept closed...

 

[Lisa]

Prolly should be kept closed...

Thank you Qui-Gon for your honesty in your post. I believe you are not alone in that thinking.

The study has a special place in my heart to be honest. It was the first section I was assigned to as a newbie mod. I worked really really hard to help make it a good place for honest, open, friendly discussion on many heated topics of conversation. It is the place where I learned how passionate Americans are about their politics and opinions. It is the place I shared topics of conversation that mattered here in Canada and I believe it made me understand Americans more and vice versa.

So it saddens me that it came to a point where it had to be closed. Maybe I am naive to believe that people can exchange ideas without name calling and without getting personal. I believe in fighting for your opinion and that sometimes things get personal but I don't believe I have to try and make you feel like a complete moron because your opinion differs from mine.

I just wish other believed that as well.

 

[exile]

Thank you Qui-Gon for your honesty in your post. I believe you are not alone in that thinking.

The study has a special place in my heart to be honest. It was the first section I was assigned to as a newbie mod. I worked really really hard to help make it a good place for honest, open, friendly discussion on many heated topics of conversation. It is the place where I learned how passionate Americans are about their politics and opinions. It is the place I shared topics of conversation that mattered here in Canada and I believe it made me understand Americans more and vice versa.

So it saddens me that it came to a point where it had to be closed. Maybe I am naive to believe that people can exchange ideas without name calling and without getting personal. I believe in fighting for your opinion and that sometimes things get personal but I don't believe I have to try and make you feel like a complete moron because your opinion differs from mine.

I just wish other believed that as well.

What people don't realize is that the uncommitted onlooker, listening to these debates, won't give you points for the insults you deliver. For the most part, they'll do the opposite: identify you as someone with strong opinions on matters you don't know enough about to defend intelligently. An idea or argument stands or falls on its own merits, regardless of the identity of the person who proposed it; if you focus on the person, the impression you convey is that you aren't up to competent analysis of the idea or argument itself. People who post in that manner make themselves look lame, or worse. If only they realized that, it would lead to a lot better quality of discussion...

 

[Tames D]

Thank you Qui-Gon for your honesty in your post. I believe you are not alone in that thinking.

The study has a special place in my heart to be honest. It was the first section I was assigned to as a newbie mod. I worked really really hard to help make it a good place for honest, open, friendly discussion on many heated topics of conversation. It is the place where I learned how passionate Americans are about their politics and opinions. It is the place I shared topics of conversation that mattered here in Canada and I believe it made me understand Americans more and vice versa.

So it saddens me that it came to a point where it had to be closed. Maybe I am naive to believe that people can exchange ideas without name calling and without getting personal. I believe in fighting for your opinion and that sometimes things get personal but I don't believe I have to try and make you feel like a complete moron because your opinion differs from mine.

I just wish other believed that as well.

Thanks Lisa. Having been on the other side of the fence for a short time I totally understand the frustration that The Study brings to you and the other Mods. Sometimes I think Bob is too easy on the troublemakers. But I know he is in a tough position and is trying to be fair to everyone.

 

[arnisador]

Prolly should be kept closed...

Well...one reason it was created was to make a place for discussions that otherwise would appear in random places throughout the site. There may be an advantage to localizing those discussions. Eliminating this forum will decrease the overall number of such posts but you'll see more discussions in Knife Arts degenerate into gun control arguments (for example), I'd wager. So, having a specialized place for such things is a blessing and a curse.

It was created because of some of the same tensions that have led it to be closed!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

We've heard for years how our members are adults, should be treated like adults, and that we're overmoderating. So we relax a little bit, and try to let people sort things out a bit before jumping in. Most of our members are fine with that. A few, can't handle it, and when called for their actions do one of 3 things. Ignore us, Insult us, or send in massive amounts of BS reports for us to precess. Right now, we're finishing revamping how we are going to moderate the study. Members who can discuss and debate in a mature manner will find things a bit calmer and hopefully more useful. Those unable to refrain from insults, slights, sweeping generalizations, and incendiary commentary will find their access to the study, and possibly the site removed, quickly. We aren't going to post a gazillion "warnings" just to be ignored. We'll be issuing one, or in the case of the more "informed" regulars, no warnings before issuing infractions. 3 strikes, or maybe less, and your out, permanently bared from that section.

All existing content will still be there, and topics can pick up again, just at a less heated level.

A sticky will be posted in the Study when we reopen it that we strongly insist that those interested in posting there read. The Steering Board will be moderating the Study, and each SB member can remove troublemakers access as needed. Yes, this might be a bit "heavy handed", but I'm going to be bluntly frank here. We're sick and tired of taking the abuse, watching a few insist they are adults then act like kids, and crap all over the section. If kicking a few out by their groins makes it a better section for the other 99% of this sites members who want to read and post there, then so be it.

If you want to flame, insult, and generally be an ***, there are sites that are made for that behavior. This isn't one of them. Get Out!

 

[Gordon Nore]

...when called for their actions do one of 3 things. Ignore us, Insult us, or send in massive amounts of BS reports for us to precess.

I'm sorry to hear that this is the case. I'm not familiar with the reporting process, having never reported anyone, nor having been reported on -- to my knowledge. A politics/issues forum, as someone noted above, can be a pressure valve to keep other forums on track. However, emotions do fray, and members of any forum can become habitually combative and go looking for a fight.

 

[shesulsa]

One common problem seems to be that there are some who cannot discern where the line between "spirited debate" and "personal attack" lies.

Here's a few pointers:

• If you are calling someone else a name, describing them in a disparaging fashion or putting them down directly - as in, another user on this board - then you are over the line.
• If you lay bait line hoping someone will jump on it time after time after time, that's trolling and against the rules.
• If someone says something about another political party that you don't necessarily agree with that may not be over the line.
• If someone says all X-party members are idiots or retarded, that's over the line. It is not a personal attack, but it's over the line.
• Point your debate to the points made, the topic at hand. If you are going to attack, attack a point not a person.
• If you still don't understand, then don't post an argument in the Study.

 

[Lisa]

One common problem seems to be that there are some who cannot discern where the line between "spirited debate" and "personal attack" lies.

Here's a few pointers:

• If you are calling someone else a name, describing them in a disparaging fashion or putting them down directly - as in, another user on this board - then you are over the line.
• If you lay bait line hoping someone will jump on it time after time after time, that's trolling and against the rules.
• If someone says something about another political party that you don't necessarily agree with that may not be over the line.
• If someone says all X-party members are idiots or retarded, that's over the line. It is not a personal attack, but it's over the line.
• Point your debate to the points made, the topic at hand. If you are going to attack, attack a point not a person.
• If you still don't understand, then don't post an argument in the Study.

I think the last point is the most important one!!!

 

[MA-Caver]

And we are trying to find a solution that is fair to everyone and can be moderated appropriately. I just wish people would learn to use the ignore function and the RTM button appropriately. We are all adults here after all.

They probably DO know about the ignore button but they'll be damned if they're going to sit there and wonder what that "s.o.b." said about them that they can't read now because their posts are ignored... plus people just LOVE a fight! Especially one that they can carry on without worry about "physical reprisals"... (i.e. worrying about the guy hauling off and belting them one) betcha they wouldn't carry on so in a face to face... or a majority of them wouldn't.
People LOVE being right and LOVE having everyone to be agreeing with them. If they don't agree then they're idiots!
It's how some folks think.
If someone doesn't agree with me then :idunno: well, at least I'd like to have a rational reason why... I deserve that don't I? If they don't have one then ... well... I've said what I've said and stand by it and leave it. Besides my participation in heavy (multi-paged) discussions tend to get buried and "left behind"... so I don't add on to it. I've said what I've said and that's good enough. Sometimes I'll get a rep point for it so it means at least ONE person out there agrees or supports or likes what I had to say... that's good nuff for me. :uhyeah:

:asian: Kudos to the mods and admins for putting up with all of that. You all have my deepest sincerest respect.

 

[arnisador]

Here's a few pointers:

• If you are calling someone else a name, describing them in a disparaging fashion or putting them down directly - as in, another user on this board - then you are over the line.
• If you lay bait line hoping someone will jump on it time after time after time, that's trolling and against the rules.
• If someone says something about another political party that you don't necessarily agree with that may not be over the line.
• If someone says all X-party members are idiots or retarded, that's over the line. It is not a personal attack, but it's over the line.
• Point your debate to the points made, the topic at hand. If you are going to attack, attack a point not a person.
• If you still don't understand, then don't post an argument in the Study.

Good advice (though I'd like an exception for X="Nazi" etc.). The restraint in the last point is the big one--know when the topic is just too personal for you. If you wouldn't/couldn't argue it with a colleague at work, maybe this isn't the time or place either.

Take a break, make a long post about your martial art, and then come back to it later when you've cooled down and are tired of typing so much! It's for the best.