The Somali Pirates

[Bill Mattocks]

As most of you know, the country of Somali has had no government for over a decade. There is no one in charge, just a bunch of warlords who battle over turf, and some radical Islamic organizations trying to move in and take over and impose Sharia Law.

And, a lot of pirates have found a fun game, taking over (generally unarmed) cargo vessels of all nations, forcing them to Somali ports, and then ransoming the crew, cargo, and ships. This has been going on for some time.

Recently, things have stepped up a bit. Some nations (including ours) have started doing some loose escorts, and they've caught a couple pirate outfits and saved a few ships. Strangely, the rules of engagement seem to preclude sinking the pirate's vessels, or keeping the crews once they're captured. They appear to just be letting them go. Very weird, given how we deal with suspected terrorists (and this was on former President Bush's watch, it's not a recent President Obama thing).

Today, the Somali pirates took over a US-flagged cargo ship, and captured its American citizen crewmembers. They apparently decided to fight back (haven't heard of that before in these cases) and won the ship back, but the pirates are adrift in a lifeboat with the captain of the vessel. The nearest US ship is 300 miles away, making steam towards them.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-somali-pirates9-2009apr09,0,4104857.story

My question - why the heck are we not simply attacking and sinking these pirate vessels on sight? Why are we not lining up the pirates once capture them and shooting them and tossing their bodies overboard? The law of the sea says capital punishment is quite fine for piracy, and the captain of the vessel has the authority to mete it out. Why are we not bombing the living crap out the ports in Somalia where these ships are taken once captured (I mean, before they get the ships there)?

I am not getting this. We should be doing "The shores of Tripoli" thing on their pirate asses. What's up with that? I'm not talking about invading, we all saw "Blackhawk Down." I mean why aren't we blowing up pirates on sight?

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I know there have been times we've differed on the finer points of certain discussions here and there, but on this point I am 100% with you.

Were I king, that is exactly what WOULD be happening. But since I'm not, we're stuck with it.

 

[MA-Caver]

Well if we wipe out piracy we wipe out a significant portion of the black market which would cut significantly (again) into the pockets funding the black market and we all know who THAT is....

 

[Gordon Nore]

I am not getting this.

My question: Why is the world not enraged?

This has been going on for some time. Other ships have fallen prey to these thugs. The Alabama is on a humanitarian mission. The vessel is not armed. The crew are not military.

I was just watching a report about this on CNN, and the anchor was explaining that area of this waterway is four times that of Texas. What a nightmare to patrol. Surely more can be done.

 

[Empty Hands]

Perhaps there are political issues with the state of things in Somalia. Perhaps we don't want to upset the apple cart there and empower the radical Muslim movements in the region. Perhaps there are national disagreements between the affected nations on how to handle it that are keeping us from taking action. Perhaps no warships have met up with these clowns in international waters.

Also, it's not like these guys fly the Jolly Roger. Until they attack a vessel, there is no way of knowing who are pirates and who aren't. And when they attack a vessel, armed forces are generally far away, and the taken vessel and crew are in Somali waters before anything can be done about it.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

This will cause companies like Blackwater, Triple Canopy, etc., to expand their operations. Some already do training on anti-piracy operation.

Of course, it will only be when the price of goods goes up in American, or a whole crew of Americans is killed that we will put any serious effort into combating this threat.

 

[grydth]

As most of you know, the country of Somali has had no government for over a decade. There is no one in charge, just a bunch of warlords who battle over turf, and some radical Islamic organizations trying to move in and take over and impose Sharia Law.

And, a lot of pirates have found a fun game, taking over (generally unarmed) cargo vessels of all nations, forcing them to Somali ports, and then ransoming the crew, cargo, and ships. This has been going on for some time.

Recently, things have stepped up a bit. Some nations (including ours) have started doing some loose escorts, and they've caught a couple pirate outfits and saved a few ships. Strangely, the rules of engagement seem to preclude sinking the pirate's vessels, or keeping the crews once they're captured. They appear to just be letting them go. Very weird, given how we deal with suspected terrorists (and this was on former President Bush's watch, it's not a recent President Obama thing).

Today, the Somali pirates took over a US-flagged cargo ship, and captured its American citizen crewmembers. They apparently decided to fight back (haven't heard of that before in these cases) and won the ship back, but the pirates are adrift in a lifeboat with the captain of the vessel. The nearest US ship is 300 miles away, making steam towards them.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-somali-pirates9-2009apr09,0,4104857.story

My question - why the heck are we not simply attacking and sinking these pirate vessels on sight? Why are we not lining up the pirates once capture them and shooting them and tossing their bodies overboard? The law of the sea says capital punishment is quite fine for piracy, and the captain of the vessel has the authority to mete it out. Why are we not bombing the living crap out the ports in Somalia where these ships are taken once captured (I mean, before they get the ships there)?

I am not getting this. We should be doing "The shores of Tripoli" thing on their pirate asses. What's up with that? I'm not talking about invading, we all saw "Blackhawk Down." I mean why aren't we blowing up pirates on sight?

Probably the same loss of will and nerve that's behind our letting the gd Iranians murder and horribly maim our soldiers with their cowardly IEDs for years in Iraq. What price have they paid?

Actually, death was THE sentence for piracy for centuries and pirates caught knew they faced being hung at dockside. Even Jefferson, by no means a warmonger, went into Tripoli and cleaned out that rat's nest.

Now, the "civilized" nations answer pirate RPGs and MGs, if at all, with noise, smoke and water hoses. Wonder why the piracy plague is spreading at such a rate..... We may ultimately decide to get really tough and tell the UN on 'em, a tactic that has succeeded admirably with Iran and North Korea.:uhohh:

I think it all has something to do with complete loss of bone mass at the spinal column.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I'm beginning to think the old 'escort carrier' ought to be brought back. No, not with F4Fs but with UAVs.

Yes a small 500 ton ship with a flat top. UAVs armed with HellFires. The 'pilots' can be back in the USA and fly them from there. Each UAV would have 12 hr flight time and at last 1000 mile range. The carrier would be able to cover any ship within say 600 mile radius.

Just station one ever 600 miles in the danger area, several hundreds of miles off shore. With night vision, radar, infared, and other goodies they should be able to pick up any pirate ship or destress signal from a ship and go rain some bad news on the pirates.

Neat thing is, using the same technology the cargo ships use, the UAV escort carrier would have only 20 or 30 crew members (but most definatly armed!)

Deaf

 

[grydth]

An inspired idea..... but for even the best weapon to be successful requires the will to use it.

Could you just see us whimpering to the UN after the pirates hijacked one of the new ships?

 

[jarrod]

most of you know i'm not exactly hawkish, but like bill i don't understand why the navy isn't on a constant search & destroy against pirates. this isn't like fighting insurgents. are they in a boat? check. do they have an RPG? check. fire away.

jf

 

[Makalakumu]

This is probably the most appropriate use of the US military that I can think of. I disagree with all of the imperialistic cowboy stuff, but in this instance, our Constitution is clear, these *******s need to go to the bottom.

 

[CoryKS]

Also, it's not like these guys fly the Jolly Roger. Until they attack a vessel, there is no way of knowing who are pirates and who aren't. And when they attack a vessel, armed forces are generally far away, and the taken vessel and crew are in Somali waters before anything can be done about it.

Maybe we could have Jeff Foxworthy write up a list for them.

If you are in a speedboat in the middle of the ocean... you might be a pirate.

If you are driving your speedboat toward a freighter... you might be a pirate.

If your crew consists of four skinny guys in t-shirts holding AK-47s... you might be a pirate.

 

[jim777]

The ransoms usually paid are in the tens of millions; I think it is rather more cost effective to simply have 6 or 8 VERY heavily armed guys on each possible targer ship working in the area. If an outboard motor powered raft approaches your tanker 300 miles off the coast, blow it out of the water. It seems easy enough.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The captain tried to escape, got caught again.

Someone tell me why we didn't have snipers on the bridge of the frigate to pick off the pirates as they neared the captain in the water until we could get a rope to him. I'm so not getting this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/10/AR2009041000881.html

 

[Omar B]

I've always wondered how these guys get close enough to these ships to board. Radar does not see them? Men not walking the deck? Plus when they sidle up by the ship it's easily 20 feet up to the deck, that's no easy climb in a rolling sea, how can they take the ship so easily?

Seems you keep hearing about these things. This is not a US military problem, it's a world problem. where are all the other countries, why are they not manning up? It's a huge area of sea to watch, we cannot be the world's guardians when it's international commerce.

 

[Makalakumu]

I listened to a US Navy Colonel on NPR yesterday and he explained that the pirate situation really wasn't that important that the US Navy had other things to do.

 

[seasoned]

The captain tried to escape, got caught again.

Someone tell me why we didn't have snipers on the bridge of the frigate to pick off the pirates as they neared the captain in the water until we could get a rope to him. I'm so not getting this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/10/AR2009041000881.html

It’s the new era Bill of lets all just get along. Big ships picking on little ones would be bad press around the world, I suspect.

 

[seasoned]

The ransoms usually paid are in the tens of millions; I think it is rather more cost effective to simply have 6 or 8 VERY heavily armed guys on each possible targer ship working in the area. If an outboard motor powered raft approaches your tanker 300 miles off the coast, blow it out of the water. It seems easy enough.

If they board the ship they are pirates, if we blow them out of the water as they approach, they are tourist, out for a boat ride. I don’t think you can win either way.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I listened to a US Navy Colonel on NPR yesterday and he explained that the pirate situation really wasn't that important that the US Navy had other things to do.

No Colonels in the Navy. Perhaps a Captain or a Commander?

 

[elder999]

If they board the ship they are pirates, if we blow them out of the water as they approach, they are tourist, out for a boat ride. I don’t think you can win either way.

Piracy is as old as sailing the seas. The best way to deal with it is also as old as sailing the seas:Prepare to repel boarders.%-}iratebooiratewheirate5:irate2:


Seriously, merchant vessels are going to have to be armed, stand watch, and be prepared to defend themselves. It might mean more work for Blackwater, or Xe or whatever they're calling themselves, since they've got the training, and can give the training, and can hire out personnel, but there it is. It's not the U.S. Navy's job to patrol waters off the coast of Somalia, or to protect U.S. merchant vessels-however few of them there actually are.