masherdong
2nd Black Belt
I am currently learning the double sai in our school. My sifu said that this sai form is a Wah Lum form from when he was training with Sifu Wallace Cupp.
The Sai
- Thread starter Xue Sheng
- Start date
I am currently learning the double sai in our school. My sifu said that this sai form is a Wah Lum form from when he was training with Sifu Wallace Cupp.
masherdong
2nd Black Belt
The sais that I have are about as old as the one that Flying Crane has. Mine are the one with the tan grips that are octagonal. Very heavy.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I've got the all-black octagonals, with black leather grip wraps. Asian World of Martial Arts?
OP
OP
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
masherdong
2nd Black Belt
Yes sir! AWMA back in da day!
Fiendlover
Black Belt
my favorite weapon is the sai. there was a form called sai wansu that i was going to learn when i graduated to my next level which was blue belt. but when i became blue they took it out and put it as 2nd degree black belt level. i was so mad that i told my sensei that i wanted privates to learn this form and he agreed. i agree completely that it shouldve been a 2nd degree black belt level in the first place cuz it was difficult but i learned it and competed with it in tournaments and hav gotten good marks.
how to use the sai was basically simple but very effective especially against the katana (which it was orginally used for). for a sai to fit u, it has to be the length from ur middle finger to ur elbow joint and it needs to be equally balanced as someone said b4.
how to use the sai was basically simple but very effective especially against the katana (which it was orginally used for). for a sai to fit u, it has to be the length from ur middle finger to ur elbow joint and it needs to be equally balanced as someone said b4.
masherdong
2nd Black Belt
Based off of what this guy said in the exercise and handling vid, The sai that I have are for throwing (he displays the sais that I have) and that I should avoid practicing with those type of sai.
My new pair of sai from Phil Worbington arrived last week, and I've had some time to evaluate them.
My first pair had been made by Phil Worbington from the 1/2" steel, and have been wonderful for me throughout the last year. Unfortunately, I realized that after training for 2.5+ hours in a couple of sai clinics earlier this month, that I'm not exactly 18 years old anymore, and that the muscles don't recover from such training nearly as quickly as they did before. That, plus the old tennis elbow started creeping back.
So, I had a new pair made by the same fellow, although this time, using 7/16" steel instead of 1/2" steel. While a 1/16" difference may not seem significant, keep in mind, that geometrics will dictate that the reduction of the width in this case, results in a 23.4375% in weight, making a significant difference in flipping speeds. After all, volumes are calculated according to the square of the radius...
The quality is still the same, and the balance is perfect, since these sai were made for my arm and hand dimensions. Durability looks to be pretty darn good, although these aren't going to be used for sai vs bo demonstrations (I'll use the 1/2" pair for that, since they've been tested already).
Still, for daily training, and for extended sessions, I can already feel a difference between the two. My elbow no longer aches, and I'm getting a significantly faster recovery speed when flipping the sai out and back, which certainly helps in kata. I had thought that I was already getting some nice speeds with my 1/2" pair (due to the better balance, compared to the clunkers from Century), but these are even nicer.
If anything, the only things that ache are the larger muscles, from regular training, so I'll take that as a good sign of things.
I'll have some pics put up later, but basically, they look very similar to the ones that he has listed here:
http://worbingtonsteele.com/images/7-2006_061.jpg
Overall, a very worthwhile purchase. These feel even better than my old Shureido "natural" sai (that were stolen from me a long time ago), and the customizations that are done make this truly something for the individual.
My first pair had been made by Phil Worbington from the 1/2" steel, and have been wonderful for me throughout the last year. Unfortunately, I realized that after training for 2.5+ hours in a couple of sai clinics earlier this month, that I'm not exactly 18 years old anymore, and that the muscles don't recover from such training nearly as quickly as they did before. That, plus the old tennis elbow started creeping back.
So, I had a new pair made by the same fellow, although this time, using 7/16" steel instead of 1/2" steel. While a 1/16" difference may not seem significant, keep in mind, that geometrics will dictate that the reduction of the width in this case, results in a 23.4375% in weight, making a significant difference in flipping speeds. After all, volumes are calculated according to the square of the radius...
The quality is still the same, and the balance is perfect, since these sai were made for my arm and hand dimensions. Durability looks to be pretty darn good, although these aren't going to be used for sai vs bo demonstrations (I'll use the 1/2" pair for that, since they've been tested already).
Still, for daily training, and for extended sessions, I can already feel a difference between the two. My elbow no longer aches, and I'm getting a significantly faster recovery speed when flipping the sai out and back, which certainly helps in kata. I had thought that I was already getting some nice speeds with my 1/2" pair (due to the better balance, compared to the clunkers from Century), but these are even nicer.
If anything, the only things that ache are the larger muscles, from regular training, so I'll take that as a good sign of things.
I'll have some pics put up later, but basically, they look very similar to the ones that he has listed here:
http://worbingtonsteele.com/images/7-2006_061.jpg
Overall, a very worthwhile purchase. These feel even better than my old Shureido "natural" sai (that were stolen from me a long time ago), and the customizations that are done make this truly something for the individual.
masherdong
2nd Black Belt
So, how much did it cost?
$200 + shipping for the pair. While it's certainly a good chunk of change, keep in mind, that comparable sai from Shureido (the stainless ones) or Agena, are going to cost $300+.
masherdong
2nd Black Belt
WOW!! That is a good chunk but I guess you get what you pay for. Thanks.
TallAdam85
3rd Black Belt
http://www.weaponsconnection.com/weapon_images/s_sait6.jpg
http://www.weaponsconnection.com/
I have a pair from them have had them for 5 years like brand new willing to sell them for 150 if u would want them?
http://www.weaponsconnection.com/
I have a pair from them have had them for 5 years like brand new willing to sell them for 150 if u would want them?
masherdong
2nd Black Belt
I appreciate the offer, but, I think anything over a $100 is way out of my budget. I guess I will just stick with what I have.
Dang... Now that's a phenomenal deal indeed, considering how much these babies normally go for.
What are the lengths? I'm sure that someone here would be interested.
TallAdam85
3rd Black Belt
ENERGY SAI OF AGENA they got purple hand rap 150 plus shipping 201/2 Inchs total
I also have a pair of sai. I found them to be a hard weapon to work with, as they had absolutely no rhythm. I've only seen a couple of forums for them, and they were either just step, flip, and stab, over, and over, or something resembling baton twirling.
It wasn't until I got to spar with them, that they made sense to me.
It wasn't until I got to spar with them, that they made sense to me.
Sorry to hear about that... With a good set of sai and proper mechanics, the sai should flow seamlessly from one technique to another.
It's more of a matter of finding good instruction on using them with good mechanics, and from there, developing flow. Without proper instruction, the mechanics are probably not going to be well-developed.
While there are some exceptions to the above (Yamanni Ryu's Oshiro Sensei has an interesting story about this matter), most folks are going to need good, live instruction in a dedicated kobudo system.
When I first started out with my Karate training decades ago, my first teacher taught us how to use sai, but the techniques were limited. The kata that we learned were nothing more than empty hand Shotokan kata, with sai in hand(s), with some flips, blocks, and strikes, replacing punches, blocks, and other strikes as well.
Trying to get any kind of flow from this method was difficult, at best. Using a pair of generic junk sai didn't make things any easier.
It wasn't a waste of time, though, since I did build up some coordination, and endurance working with these sai. However, when I started training in a dedicated kobudo system, and not one based off a modified empty hand system, I had to unlearn quite a few mechanics. Sometimes, that can be even more difficult than learning from scratch.
In the end, it's important to find good, live, dedicated instruction, just as we would do so with any serious martial arts training. Dare I say, that the system you choose isn't so much of an issue, since the "big three" systems of Yamanni Chinen Ryu, Matayoshi Kobudo, and Ryu Kyu Kobudo, can all offer sound instruction. There are other systems as well, although I don't know about them in any real detail.
I was given a pair of very old Sai's that someone used to compete with in the early 80's. She stopped competing and gave them to me. They are silver with engraved dragons and seem to be of sturdier make then much of what you see today. I have two Sai forms that I practice and I enjoy doing them. There hasn't been very many students that have requested to learn them over the years, however, the few students that have learned them trained hard at it and really have enjoyed it. Learning Sai is a required part of our weapons program. Most students find them tricky to use at first but do well once they nail down the first form. I feel fortunate to have had a good weapons instructor. There seem to be fewer and fewer people teaching the older weapons nowadays. I wasn't interested in the Sai in my early training since I didn't deem it as being very practical, however, I find now that not all of my training has to be practical. There is a lot of value in doing it for the fun of it! 
I wasn't interested in the Sai in my early training since I didn't deem it as being very practical, however, I find now that not all of my training has to be practical. There is a lot of value in doing it for the fun of it!
This is a great point! One of the key differences between LE Defensive Tactics or self defense classes and martial arts training is that, in martial arts training, we do things that may not be directly tied to being practical.
There's nothing wrong in working with a particular weapon or skill just 'cause it's "cool" or fun to do!
I agree. We are learning many moves that are probable, but also moves that are possible (although they all may not be the MOST practical.) I have certain core material that I always practice that I think is the most important and practical, and then I also have play time.
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