The Root and Consequences of Riot

[Archangel M]

Interesting read from the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/12/world/europe/12police.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2

A former senior riot police officer with knowledge of current operations, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said that the most recent riots were allowed to rage, in part, because police officers felt constrained. They operated, the former officer said, in the shadow of the case of a newspaper vendor, Ian Tomlinson, who died after being shoved by a riot officer guarding against protesters at a Group of 20 economic conference in 2009. The police officer, Simon Harwood, will go on trial for manslaughter in October.

Metropolitan Police figures from May 2011, the most recent available, show that three times as many black and Asian people were stopped and searched in London as all other ethnicities combined, even though they make up only a quarter of the city’s population. The Metropolitan Police spokesman said that officers operated within national guidelines on stop and search, and that they had to have a suspicion of crime before conducting such searches. He said that 9.6 percent of officers were now black or minority ethnic, and that the police remained “committed to having a diverse work force.”

Riot police officers in the elite Territorial Support Group, who wear distinctive boiler suits and have been present at most of the unrest, “know they’ve got to be very careful,” the former officer said. “Everyone is filming everyone, and you don’t want to be locked up.” Water cannons and plastic bullets, the former officer said, are “more for P.R. among politicians,” and probably would not be effective against the fast-moving rioters who outran the police. A spokesman for the Metropolitan Police quoted the acting head of the force, Tim Godwin, and said, “We police by consent, that’s the situation that’s always been and it will continue that way.”

In day to day operations you "Police by Consent"..sure. But in a riot situation you have to regain the masses "consent", and that means use of force.

I hear US Police Chief William Bratton is supposed to be on the way as an adviser.

Metropolitan Police figures from May 2011, the most recent available, show that three times as many black and Asian people were stopped and searched in London as all other ethnicities combined, even though they make up only a quarter of the city’s population. The Metropolitan Police spokesman said that officers operated within national guidelines on stop and search, and that they had to have a suspicion of crime before conducting such searches. He said that 9.6 percent of officers were now black or minority ethnic, and that the police remained “committed to having a diverse work force.”



But at the riots in Tottenham and Hackney in recent days, several rioters cited a hatred of the police, and their perceived racism, as motivating the violence. One young man in Hackney shouted at the officers: “You know you all racist! You know it.”

Now this sounds familiar...after some of the somewhat critical commentary about US LE I have seen, it seems like we have a "glass house" situation here.

Of course, in defense of my brethren "across the pond", news articles spewing stats in a vacuum with no information about the situation "on the ground" are not enough for me to condemn UK LEO's and their policing techniques.

 

[Big Don]

Even in a highly homogeous society like Japan, they find groups to discriminate against.

Japanese and Koreans are genetically identical, but, don't tell either group. Neither one likes it...

 

[Tez3]

William Bratton along with police officers from Clydesdale ( Glasgow) are going to be advisors on getting rid of the gangs in London rather than having anything to do with the riots and looting. David Cameron has declared 'war' on gangs and gang culture he believes are behind the riots and looting, Glasgow and New York have experience in dealing with and eliminating gang culture so hopefully it will work in London too.

Stop and Search is something that is time consuming and not popular among police officers, each stop will last at least an hour because of the paperwork that has to be filled at the time, it will take more if the person being stopped is drunk/drugged or plain unco-operative. The stop and search is only done when there is suspicion of criminal behaviour, often it's drug and gang related. Now however this may sound, in London the gangs culture is most rife among black and Asians. Much of this behave is modelled on what they perceive to be way the American gangs behave. You will see the hanging down jeans etc, they even try to sound like the prison gangs they see on tv here. We have several programmes on here that show life in American prisons which act as 'inspiration' to these people.

The police are being criticied for not taking strong enough action on the first night at the demonstration against the shooting of the suspect with the gun ( confirmed later to be a 'real' gun as opposed to a replica, though how you're supposed to tell the difference at a distance or even closer up!). The police wanted to keep a low profile to avoid violence, but of course there was so it's the police at fault. In hindsight there weren't enough officers on the ground.

The police are the 'natural' target of gangs and the disaffected youth, they are also going to say the police are rascist as a whole. Of course there are officiers who are rascist, efforts are made to educate and/or weed these out but the police forces here aren't angels, to an extent they do mirror the population. the constant hatred of some against the police doesn't persuade officers who are inclined to be rascist to change their minds!

Met police stop and search policy.
http://www.met.police.uk/stopandsearch/what_is.htm

One of the things the Met and others forces do is bring sniffer dogs to Underground stations to check people for drugs, now these dogs are well trained and respond to the smell of drugs yet they have been accused of being rascist when they indicate drug traces on people!

I think the truth is that the Met andit's officers are never going to please all the people all the time. The best they can hope for is that they can assure themselves they are doing the best job they can in fighting crime despite everything.

There are cultural difference here that can't be reconciled, there is high marijuana use among black people of West Indian origin here, to them it's acceptable, to the law here it's not. perhaps making this drug legal is the answer I don't know, it's a whole different argument but while it is illegal here and it's use widespread then people are going to be stopped when officers smell it or see it being used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafari_movement#Spiritual_use_of_cannabis

All in all there are some very diffiicult questions being asked and there are some answers but to many they are equally difficult. if we are to have a blitz on the gangs though it will help enormously, if Cameron keeps his word and doesn't water down the advice he's given and allows the police to take postive action. We'll see.
http://www.itzcaribbean.com/ron_shillingford.php

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2009/07/challenging_gang_culture.html

 

[Tez3]

Had to post this You Tube video a Scottish fighter I know as posted up on FB.
It's of Scottish riots,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2kC1jMKZco&sns=fb

 

[Sukerkin]

Some news of the actual cases going before the courts are coming out:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14504005
"One student was given a six-month sentence for stealing a bottle of water, and BBC legal affairs correspondent Clive Coleman said tough sentences were "inevitable" given the public outrage."


I have to say that I think 6 months is a bit harsh for stealing a bottle of water, tho' of course we dont' know what else he was involved in. That will effectively put a dent in his employment prospects whether he graduates or not.
I have to admit tho' that "Maybe she should have thought of that beforehand" sprang to mind with this case:


"Back at Westminster Magistrates Court, a care worker with a two-year-old child - charged with receiving stolen goods including four TV sets - was refused bail.

Regina Appiah, 25, from Clapham Park Estate, was likely to lose her job and accommodation and could even see her child taken into care if she was remanded in custody, her lawyer told the court."

 

[Tez3]

Looting is considered a more serious act than 'just' stealing hence the tougher sentence. it won't just be public perception that means tougher sentences are handed out, some sentences have been quite lenient, however judges, JPs etc are tied to the law in what sentences they hand out.
This is interesting reading. Quite honestly some looters should be charged with sheer stupidity! Stealing stuff then posting pictures of yourself with it on Facebook has got to be up there in the list of things not to do for criminals.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8687177/London-riots-live.html

 

[granfire]

Looting is considered a more serious act than 'just' stealing hence the tougher sentence. it won't just be public perception that means tougher sentences are handed out, some sentences have been quite lenient, however judges, JPs etc are tied to the law in what sentences they hand out.
This is interesting reading. Quite honestly some looters should be charged with sheer stupidity! Stealing stuff then posting pictures of yourself with it on Facebook has got to be up there in the list of things not to do for criminals.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8687177/London-riots-live.html

makes it so much easier for LE to put them away then, more time spend on the big fish ^_^

(I love when somebody else does my work for me, don't you? )