The Red Boat Opera Wing Chun

[geezer]

So... Here some facts: Leung Bik did exist, his full name was Leung Bik Wor. he died in 1911 and is buried in Fatsaan. Yip Man was enrolled at the College in HK when he was 18 (IIRC), so given he was born in the early 1890s, he could not have learnt from Leung Bik. nor could any student of Wai Yan have personally met Leung Bik...

Interesting, seeing as a lot of people online were claiming that Leung Bic never existed. It would be great if you could direct us to some sources!

BTW, according to what's currently on Wikipedia, Yip Man went to Hong Kong when he was 16, which would have been around 1909, and matriculated at St. Stephen's College (a prep school) the following year. If your facts are correct, that would have made it possible for Yip Man to have met and perhaps to have briefly trained with Leung Bic for about a year.

 

[geezer]

A couple of enthusiastic Wing Chun female students visited China to get the real flavor and learn what they could of the legend of Ng and the maiden Wing Chun....

Where do you get these stories?!?

 

[jobo]

Where do you get these stories?!?

The beano I suspect, ( nb,that joke may not travel the Atlantic well).

 

[Punchy]

The beano I suspect, ( nb,that joke may not travel the Atlantic well).

I get Monty Python(mostly), and Benny Hill to a point, but you lost me on that one.

 

[jobo]

I get Monty Python(mostly), and Benny Hill to a point, but you lost me on that one.

I
It's a kid s comic, that's been going for decades, bought more now by adults than children, that famous for its dreadful jokes

The Beano - Wikipedia

 

[jlq]

Geezer,
it is a fundamental problem that a lot of the information bandied about on the internet is old and/or has been distorted.

Another problem is that people in the West think what they know is what there is to know. I have said on many occasions that there is much more information available in Mainland China if you bother looking into it and if you know who to ask...

As far as the information on Leung Bik, anyone interested in seeing the evidence can go to the Yip Man Museum in Louchang, Foshan (not the Yip Man Tong in the Zhumiao), where the family documents of Leung Bik have been on display since about 2015.

Leung Jan had many descendants, who are stil around today.

Here is what some local researchers have found out:
According to the history of the St. Stephens College of Hong Kong, Ip Man enrolled at the age of 18 in 1917. The principal was The Revd. W.H. Hewitt ( Reverend Hou Wun, Sir TANG Shiu-kin, CBE KStJ, was a fellow of Foshan.)

As always be careful with Wikipedia...

 

[jlq]

but, he might have met Leung Bik - depending on when he actually returned to Fatsaan -, surely.

 

[jlq]

Sometimes one should of course not trust reseaechers either...

As you can see, there is a small problem with the text I quoted.

However, the fact is that Yip Man matriculated at St. Stephen's college in... 1917! According to the official records of the school.

So YM's.story has quite a few problems...

At least with the information given.

 

[jlq]

However... Again... Maybe one cannot exactly trust those sources entirely either... Because they are contradicting themselves.

 

[jlq]

Haha... What a mess! Let me sum it up:

1. We have actual, authentic documents from Leung Bik's family and descendants which are still here today.

2. According to St. Stephen's records, which are public, Yip man matriculated there in 1917. This sounds very odd... But if true, really throws a monkey wrench in a lot of stories...

 

[DavyKOTWF]

Thanks for the info @jlq Do you speak Mandarin? Have you seen the TV series in HK on Leung Bik? Here's an article, that also states that Ip Man's version is interesting. Roots of Wing Chun - International Wing Chun Organization
All could very well have come from the Red Boat Opera line; where they probably did use long poles to push their boats. And 'on the run' king fu fighters living/working/participating in operas on boats, would be a good cover to hide from those trying to kill them.


Two monks were arguing about the temple flag waving in the wind.
One said, “The flag moves.”
The other said, “The wind moves.”
They argued back and forth but could not agree.
Hui-neng, the sixth patriarch, said: “Gentlemen! It is not the flag that moves. It is not the wind that moves. It is your mind that moves.”

 

[ShortBridge]

There is no spoon.

 

[DavyKOTWF]

It is like a lowly disciple hanging by his teeth in a tree over a precipice. His hands grasp no branch, his feet rest on no limb, and under the tree the high mighty grandmaster asks him, 'Why did Bodhidharma come to China from India?'

 

[jlq]

Davy,
1. I speak very little Mandarin and Cantonese, but if it is about certain subjects, I usually get the general idea.
2. I have seen the TV series, yes.
3. The long pole is a common weapon in virtually all (southern) Chinese styles, nothing specific to the boats. People would develop skills to use everyday tools as weapons, so of course a poler would develop this skill. But Leung Yi Tai's pole skills are supposed to be "Hung Kuen". Some people might have been hiding on the boats as people doing menial labour and such, but an opera actor is not something one just became easily. But people might have been hiding in the opera guild hall or remote temples.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Is red boat opera similar to Beijing opera that it's just a performance art that Jack Chen used to train? Should you be proud of yourself if your MA teacher is a Beijing opera singer?

The Red Boat Opera Troupe (Chinese: 紅船) was a group of Chinese travelling opera singers who toured China in the late 1800s and early 1900s.