the question that could start a massive debate

[donald1]

here's the thing about Krav Maga... it is much younger than Karate or Kung Fu. It is more of a modern day martial art. So while people in Karate or Kung Fu use weapons such as swords, staffs, and nunchucks, Krav Maga teaches how to disarm and use M-16s, hand guns, and knives

Do they really teach you to use guns in krav maga? (Atleast from what im reading thats what it sounds like) I ask this question because the only thing I know about that style is how to spell it correctly

I think ill keep to just practicing with my rokushakubō(staff) and niuweidao (saber)

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

Yeah, I would agree. Though, FMA does that as well.

I do feel that FMA has a bit of an advantage in how it's taught, and that it's a bit more all encompassing. It covers a lot of footwork, and develops a broader approach to combat, and trains it in a very "live" way. Krav, from the little I've seen of it, is more rigid and technique focused.

I think I personally learn better with more of a FMA approach, where things are less structured and there's more flow and experimentation. But I also think there are people who probably learn better with a more structured approach and practice as found in Krav and many traditional Japanese arts. So, to some extent, the learning style and natural aptitude of the practitioner should probably be considered.

yeah, as seems to be the case almost always with martial arts, is there is no best martial art... different styles are good for different people. its impossible or damn near impossible to say one martial art rises above the rest in every way, i guess i was just trying to challenge people when i asked which single one is all around superior to the rest ya feel me. the only FMA i'm familiar with is Kali. there is a gym i was thinking about joining that offers Kali as well as Jeet Kune Do, Wing Chun, Muay Thai, and BJJ. it sounds like an awesome martial art though, just to be honest i haven't heard of it much hardly at all, at least until i joined this website, and have seen several posts about FMA. so let me ask you, is there grappling in FMA? if so, is it more like Judo, BJJ, Sambo or Greco Roman Wrestling? what do you mean exactly when you say it covers a lot of footwork? does it have a lot of striking? my guess for that last question would be yes, but i'm asking anyway what is your favorite aspect of FMA? i hope you don't mind me asking you a few questions, i'm just regrettably ignorant about FMA and it sounds fascinating.

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

Do they really teach you to use guns in krav maga? (Atleast from what im reading thats what it sounds like) I ask this question because the only thing I know about that style is how to spell it correctly

I think ill keep to just practicing with my rokushakubō(staff) and niuweidao (saber)

yes, not only do they use guns in Krav Maga, they state that shooting is the best way to end a conflict. They put shooting guns over hand to hand combat, which isn't to say they don't do plenty of hand to hand combat also... but one of their main focuses is to shoot someone if you have a gun and if your opponent has a gun techniques to disarm your attacker and use it against him/her.

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

yes, not only do they use guns in Krav Maga, they state that shooting is the best way to end a conflict. They put shooting guns over hand to hand combat, which isn't to say they don't do plenty of hand to hand combat also... but one of their main focuses is to shoot someone if you have a gun and if your opponent has a gun techniques to disarm your attacker and use it against him/her.

ok i correct myself i shouldn't say that shooting someone is the "best" way to end a conflict, but maybe the most efficient way. i got robbed at gunpoint by a dude standing 8 feet away from me... I could have been Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris combined still can't dodge bullets!

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

ok i correct myself i shouldn't say that shooting someone is the "best" way to end a conflict, but maybe the most efficient way. i got robbed at gunpoint by a dude standing 8 feet away from me... I could have been Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris combined still can't dodge bullets!

one more thing... this differs depending on where you are, but I live in Atlanta. now in Atlanta, if someone messes with you, it probably means you're in the hood. and if you're in the hood, damn good chance dude be packin heat. that is where Krav Maga would really come in handy. if you can close the distance between you and him, you can use your skills to disarm him and then use his own weapon against him. Most other martial arts, someone pulls a gun on you, whatcha gonna do?

 

[Argus]

yeah, as seems to be the case almost always with martial arts, is there is no best martial art... different styles are good for different people. its impossible or damn near impossible to say one martial art rises above the rest in every way, i guess i was just trying to challenge people when i asked which single one is all around superior to the rest ya feel me. the only FMA i'm familiar with is Kali. there is a gym i was thinking about joining that offers Kali as well as Jeet Kune Do, Wing Chun, Muay Thai, and BJJ. it sounds like an awesome martial art though, just to be honest i haven't heard of it much hardly at all, at least until i joined this website, and have seen several posts about FMA. so let me ask you, is there grappling in FMA? if so, is it more like Judo, BJJ, Sambo or Greco Roman Wrestling? what do you mean exactly when you say it covers a lot of footwork? does it have a lot of striking? my guess for that last question would be yes, but i'm asking anyway what is your favorite aspect of FMA? i hope you don't mind me asking you a few questions, i'm just regrettably ignorant about FMA and it sounds fascinating.

That's okay. I'm still new to FMA, and my background is mostly in Wing Chun. The two are pretty similar and complementary, by the way. But FMA is definitely a bit broader in scope.

Kali, Escrima, and Arnis are all generic terms for Filipino Martial Arts. There are actually tons and tons of Systems within Filipino Martial Arts. But most of them are somewhat similar as they've borrowed from each other. Specifically, I practice Lameco Eskrima, which is a synthesis of 3 major systems: Pekiti Tirsia, The Illustrissimo System, and the Caballero System. It also contains influence from a number of smaller systems. I also practice a bit of Pekiti Tirsia when I can make it down to train with one of our members here on MT

I'm sure others can give a better break down of the systems than I can, as I'm still fairly new, but FMA covers striking and trapping very similar to how Wing Chun does. The grappling is a bit more dynamic than judo or wrestling, consisting more of wrist-locks, disarms, and arm locks/breaks. It doesn't really get into prolonged, stand off wrestling in the same way as Judo, BJJ, or Greco Roman Wrestling because of the likelihood of weapons being involved. The grappling is there to compliment the usage of weapons, or any empty hand striking you may employ. If anything, it's fairly similar to a lot of what we do in Aikido, but more aggressive and offensive in nature. Like I said though, my knowledge of it is very limited.

My favorite aspect of FMA's is definitely the focus on weapons, though. The presence of a knife, a stick, or a machete really changes your outlook. The main reason I got into it was because I realized that, while I had a decent foundation in Wing Chun, I was not able to apply my empty hand skills effectively when a knife was involved -- simply because it's not something I ever trained to deal with. So, the knife defense aspect and use of improvised weapons is really why I've started training FMA's recently.

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

That's okay. I'm still new to FMA, and my background is mostly in Wing Chun. The two are pretty similar and complementary, by the way. But FMA is definitely a bit broader in scope.

Kali, Escrima, and Arnis are all generic terms for Filipino Martial Arts. There are actually tons and tons of Systems within Filipino Martial Arts. But most of them are somewhat similar as they've borrowed from each other. Specifically, I practice Lameco Eskrima, which is a synthesis of 3 major systems: Pekiti Tirsia, The Illustrissimo System, and the Caballero System. It also contains influence from a number of smaller systems. I also practice a bit of Pekiti Tirsia when I can make it down to train with one of our members here on MT

I'm sure others can give a better break down of the systems than I can, as I'm still fairly new, but FMA covers striking and trapping very similar to how Wing Chun does. The grappling is a bit more dynamic than judo or wrestling, consisting more of wrist-locks, disarms, and arm locks/breaks. It doesn't really get into prolonged, stand off wrestling in the same way as Judo, BJJ, or Greco Roman Wrestling because of the likelihood of weapons being involved. The grappling is there to compliment the usage of weapons, or any empty hand striking you may employ. If anything, it's fairly similar to a lot of what we do in Aikido, but more aggressive and offensive in nature. Like I said though, my knowledge of it is very limited.

My favorite aspect of FMA's is definitely the focus on weapons, though. The presence of a knife, a stick, or a machete really changes your outlook. The main reason I got into it was because I realized that, while I had a decent foundation in Wing Chun, I was not able to apply my empty hand skills effectively when a knife was involved -- simply because it's not something I ever trained to deal with. So, the knife defense aspect and use of improvised weapons is really why I've started training FMA's recently.

sounds pretty complex... a lot of different systems. so the primary focus is on weapons? sounds like a lot of knives. Interesting that you compared it to Aikido... I know a few Aikido practitioners personally, and saw a guy with a black belt in it do some kind of wrist thing and flip over a guy twice his size. but yeah that's a lot of systems... sounds fierce! If you have any videos demonstrating it I'd love to see them. there must be a ton of different moves with so many systems.. and i bet if you really learn all the systems you will be a damn well rounded fighter!

 

[Argus]

sounds pretty complex... a lot of different systems. so the primary focus is on weapons? sounds like a lot of knives. Interesting that you compared it to Aikido... I know a few Aikido practitioners personally, and saw a guy with a black belt in it do some kind of wrist thing and flip over a guy twice his size. but yeah that's a lot of systems... sounds fierce! If you have any videos demonstrating it I'd love to see them. there must be a ton of different moves with so many systems.. and i bet if you really learn all the systems you will be a damn well rounded fighter!

That would make you Dan Inosanto, basically

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

That would make you Dan Inosanto, basically

Dan Inosanto! the school i mentioned (at least i think i mentioned it i'm too lazy to go back through my posts and check and sometimes i'm forgetful) but yeah there is a school in Tucker, GA named Elite Academy of Martial Arts that teaches a unique combination of martial arts: Jeet Kune Do, Wing Chun, Muay Thai, BJJ, and Kali. there is a picture of Sifu Mike, head of the school, with some other martial artists, one of which is Dan Inosanto!

 

[Argus]

Dan Inosanto! the school i mentioned (at least i think i mentioned it i'm too lazy to go back through my posts and check and sometimes i'm forgetful) but yeah there is a school in Tucker, GA named Elite Academy of Martial Arts that teaches a unique combination of martial arts: Jeet Kune Do, Wing Chun, Muay Thai, BJJ, and Kali. there is a picture of Sifu Mike, head of the school, with some other martial artists, one of which is Dan Inosanto!

View attachment 19360

That's awesome. I recognize several of those guys.

I'd be training there if I were you

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

That's awesome. I recognize several of those guys.

I'd be training there if I were you

for a while i was seriously thinking about it. i have done research and maybe one or two schools in the United States have that unique combo of martial arts. and you get to train in all five martial arts for a combined price of 180$. The thing is, I live like an hour from Tucker, and I can't drive long distances due to my disability, so i don't know how i'd get to and from there. secondly, learning five different martial arts is overwhelming to me. I'm having enough trouble with one...TKD. but yeah i was seriously thinking about moving to that area at one point a while back but yeah i never did. i like my TKD class a lot, despite the fact that Grandmaster Chung can be a temperamental dick sometimes... but yeah i have seen one of my instructors in action, and his kicks were amazing. so at some point i decided that, for now at least, i'm gonna stick with TKD, which is just as formidable as any other martial art in my opinion.

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

for a while i was seriously thinking about it. i have done research and maybe one or two schools in the United States have that unique combo of martial arts. and you get to train in all five martial arts for a combined price of 180$. The thing is, I live like an hour from Tucker, and I can't drive long distances due to my disability, so i don't know how i'd get to and from there. secondly, learning five different martial arts is overwhelming to me. I'm having enough trouble with one...TKD. but yeah i was seriously thinking about moving to that area at one point a while back but yeah i never did. i like my TKD class a lot, despite the fact that Grandmaster Chung can be a temperamental dick sometimes... but yeah i have seen one of my instructors in action, and his kicks were amazing. so at some point i decided that, for now at least, i'm gonna stick with TKD, which is just as formidable as any other martial art in my opinion.

another reason i didn't teach this school is that i don't plan on staying in the ATL metro area for more than another year or two... and nowhere else would i be able to continue training with that combo of martial arts. Taekwondo, on the other hand, is the most popular martial art in the world. granted not all Dojangs are high quality, but one of the places i'm looking at moving back to is Zhuhai (i lived there 10 years ago) and there is a TKD school there that looks great

 

[Argus]

one more thing... this differs depending on where you are, but I live in Atlanta. now in Atlanta, if someone messes with you, it probably means you're in the hood. and if you're in the hood, damn good chance dude be packin heat. that is where Krav Maga would really come in handy. if you can close the distance between you and him, you can use your skills to disarm him and then use his own weapon against him. Most other martial arts, someone pulls a gun on you, whatcha gonna do?

Just caught this.

Keep in mind the goal of self defense versus purely combative application. If you shoot someone pointing a gun at you, you can claim self defense. If you disarm someone pointing a gun at you, you can still claim self defense. If you disarm someone and then shoot them, you cannot claim self defense unless they drew another weapon or attempted to regain control of the one you took from them -- because at that point, you're going from disarming a threat, to shooting an unarmed man who no longer has the capacity and will to harm you.

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

Just caught this.

Keep in mind the goal of self defense versus purely combative application. If you shoot someone pointing a gun at you, you can claim self defense. If you disarm someone pointing a gun at you, you can still claim self defense. If you disarm someone and then shoot them, you cannot claim self defense unless they drew another weapon or attempted to regain control of the one you took from them -- because at that point, you're going from disarming a threat, to shooting an unarmed man who no longer has the capacity and will to harm you.

i didn't mean to imply that once you've disarmed him that you are required to shoot him back. if he surrenders, problem solved. If he is strung out on crack and keeps blindly coming at you (keep in mind we're talking about probably being in the hood) you can defend yourself using martial arts at this point as he no longer has a gun. you can even use the gun as a blunt weapon if you want. but yeah, on the flip side of the coin, many police officers have died because they tried to avoid using the gun, so the general consensus is to shoot if at all necessary. if some drunk starts talking **** but does not have a weapon, then of course you don't need to use a gun, but if it comes to life or death, the Krav Maga experts will tell you to shoot.

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

you can use your skills to disarm him and then use his own weapon against him

Often times Krav Maga practitioners will talk about using the weapon you have taken from your attacker as a blunt instrument. that is more like what i meant

 

[Argus]

Often times Krav Maga practitioners will talk about using the weapon you have taken from your attacker as a blunt instrument. that is more like what i meant

Right. Well, at that point you need to think about weapon retention, though. If he's attempting to grab and regain control of the weapon, then it's still lethal force situation. So, generally shooting would be justified in that context.

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

Right. Well, at that point you need to think about weapon retention, though. If he's attempting to grab and regain control of the weapon, then it's still lethal force situation. So, generally shooting would be justified in that context.

well, i guess there are a few things you could do in that situation. one is to just throw the weapon off to the side somewhere and then dispatch him before he can run after it. If you are an expert in Krav Maga and he is not, then he probably isn't gonna be very successful in regaining control of the weapon. you could fight dirty and knee him in the balls but making sure his finger is nowhere near the trigger... I'll always remember Jet Li in Lethal Weapon 4 where Mel Gibson and Danny Glover had guns to Jet Li's head and he dismantled both of their guns in like a fraction of a second. Seeing Jet Li in that movie was one of the things that inspired me to take up martial arts... but most of us are not as fast as Jet Li.

 

[Argus]

I'll always remember Jet Li in Lethal Weapon 4 where Mel Gibson and Danny Glover had guns to Jet Li's head and he dismantled both of their guns in like a fraction of a second. Seeing Jet Li in that movie was one of the things that inspired me to take up martial arts... but most of us are not as fast as Jet Li.

Well, don't feel bad. It's a lot easier to be as fast as Jet Li and accomplish unlikely martial feats when everything is scripted and choreographed

I was advocating the simple approach of "if he's going after the weapon you just took from him, shoot him."

Skill in the real world usually takes the form of accomplishing the appropriate goal in the least complicated, most direct, efficient, and reliable way available.

But, there's absolutely nothing wrong with looking to movies for inspiration, of course! That's what they're made for

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

Well, don't feel bad. It's a lot easier to be as fast as Jet Li and accomplish unlikely martial feats when everything is scripted and choreographed

I was advocating the simple approach of "if he's going after the weapon you just took from him, shoot him."

Skill in the real world usually takes the form of accomplishing the appropriate goal in the least complicated, most direct, efficient, and reliable way available.

But, there's absolutely nothing wrong with looking to movies for inspiration, of course! That's what they're made for

i mean if someone pulls a gun on you from a distance, you're screwed. I actually posted a thread last night about Jet Li... he has real life credentials. i actually took Shaolin Kung Fu for a while a long time ago for two reasons... i wanted to be like a Shaolin Monk and I wanted to be like Jet Li. however, i didn't really care for that approach to martial arts... not saying it is bad, just not for me. but yeah the more i think about it if you include a gun in martial arts then there is the dominant martial art right there!

 

[qianfeng]

Yellow bamboo is the greatest martial art of ALL TIME.

Other than yellow bamboo i ould say the eighteen dragon slaying palms are very good