The nine principles of Kenpo

[bigrogb]

I was reading on Tracy's website today about the nine principles of Kenpo. He went into explanation about how he feels that American kenpo lacks this but, he never really went on to say what they are. i googled it and nohing came up. Was wondering what they are and are they in the lines of "economy of motion", "solid base", "postional checks" ect ect ect......

 

[HKphooey]

I believe they are based on teachings of Miyamoto Musashis and the Book of Five Rings,

1. Do not think dishonestly.
2. The Way is in training.
3. Become aquatinted with every art.
4. Know the Ways of all professions.
5. Distinguish between gain and loss in worldly matters.
6. Develop intuitive judgment and understanding for everything.
7. Perceive those things which cannot be seen.
8. Pay attentions even to trifles.
9. Do nothing which is of no use.

 

[HKphooey]

I heard about them way back at the beginning of my training and they used to hang one of the schools I trained at.

They all seem like basic principles of most martial artists, so i am not sure how or how not American Kenpo would be lacking them.

 

[hongkongfooey]

Will Tracy = dork.

 

[HKphooey]

Has nothing to do with Will Tracy, except the fact some of the info may have benn quoted on their website.

 

[green meanie]

For a second there I thought you were arguing with yourself...

 

[Carol]

No HongKongFooeys were injured (or cloned) in the making of this thread

 

[hongkongfooey]

Has everything to do with Will Tracy. He wrote the article.
In this article, he basically calls those who study American Kenpo a bunch of losers. But, it's his opinion. An uninformed opinion in regard to American Kenpo, but still his nonetheless.




http://www.tracyskenpokarate.com/Kenpo%20vs.%20American%20Kenpo.htm

 

[James Patrick]

I believe they are based on teachings of Miyamoto Musashis and the Book of Five Rings,

1. Do not think dishonestly.
2. The Way is in training.
3. Become aquatinted with every art.
4. Know the Ways of all professions.
5. Distinguish between gain and loss in worldly matters.
6. Develop intuitive judgment and understanding for everything.
7. Perceive those things which cannot be seen.
8. Pay attentions even to trifles.
9. Do nothing which is of no use.

Those are pretty cool. Don't think I've seen that yet, thanks.

James

 

[Andrew Green]

In this article, he basically calls those who study American Kenpo a bunch of losers. But, it's his opinion. An uninformed opinion in regard to American Kenpo, but still his nonetheless.

Yeah, Tracy guys knock Parker guys, Parker guys knock Tracy guys.

Politics are politics everywhere

 

[HKphooey]

Yeah, Tracy guys knock Parker guys, Parker guys knock Tracy guys.

Politics are politics everywhere

You study any kenpo (or martial art for that matter) and you are a friend of mine. Unless of course you bash other martial artists.

 

[HKphooey]

Has everything to do with Will Tracy. He wrote the article.
In this article, he basically calls those who study American Kenpo a bunch of losers. But, it's his opinion. An uninformed opinion in regard to American Kenpo, but still his nonetheless.


http://www.tracyskenpokarate.com/Kenpo%20vs.%20American%20Kenpo.htm

The nine principles may have been translated by him, but those ideas are from way before he was born.

But it is your opionion and that is what a forum like this is for - all sides of the story.

 

[HKphooey]

Those are pretty cool. Don't think I've seen that yet, thanks.

James

More info if you are interested (and for those that may need to educate themselves on the subject )

The book that outlines these beliefs...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1419121901/104-8294864-8276749?v=glance&n=283155

Quick Overview of the philospophy...
http://users.tkk.fi/~renko/gorinnosho.html

Another good resource...
http://www.miyamotomusashi.com/

 

[KenpoDave]

Below is the entire article. I don't see any reference to American Kenpo lacking these principles, or to American Kenpo at all, but rather a reference to "kenpo theorists" in general. If you practice American Kenpo, and you perceive this article as slanted towards you, then perhaps you should heed this call to spend more time in application and less time in theory. If it is another style of kenpo that you study, and you see yourself here, it also applies. That is what I get out of it. "Do not think, just do it."​

The 9 Ways of Kenpo
by Will Tracy ​

Musashi is known as the Kensei, or sword-saint, of Japan. His teachings are based on swordsmanship, but they were adopted by the masters of Kenpo while this great master was still alive. Foremost among these are his Nine Principles. They alone lead to the "Way of Kenpo - the Warrior Spirit”.
These principles are found in the Way of every great Japanese martial art, the Chinese Tao, and are the Way of life.
Musashi wrote:

”To all Ways there are side-tracks. If you study a Way daily, and
your spirit diverges, you may think you are obeying a good way, but
objectively it is not the true Way. If you are following the true Way
and diverge a little, this will later become a large divergence. You
must realize this.”

But few in Kenpo realize this, and one cannot understand Kenpo without understanding the 9 Principles as given in A Book of Five Rings (the best translation of which is by Victor Harris, The Overlook Press); and, one who has not read Musashi can only pretend.

1. Do not think dishonestly
2. The Way is in training
3. Become acquainted with every art
4. Know the Ways of all professions
5. Distinguish between gain and loss in worldly matters
6. Develop intuitive judgment and understanding of everything
7. Perceive those things which cannot be seen
8. Pay attention even to trifles
9. Do nothing which is of no use

The master stated, “It is important to start by setting these broad principles in your heart, and train in the Way of strategy. If you do not look at things on a large scale it will be difficult for you to master strategy”.

The ranks of Kenpo are filled by those who have theories, but few know or follow these principles. Miyamoto Musashi on the other hand proved his principles by killing 63 sword masters in single combat before
retiring to write A Book of Five Rings. His principles of strategy are as sound today as they were when he wrote them down 300 years ago. This is because strategy (Heiho) was not a theory, but the method.
How different this is from today's Kenpo theorists who try to define every angle of incident, angle of attack and their analysis of paralysis, but have never defeated a true master of any martial art. They have failed to recognize the Zen principle by which every martial artist survives, “Do not think. Just do it”
One who learns them cannot be far from the Way of Kenpo.
​

 

[Michael Billings]

Yeah, Tracy guys knock Parker guys, Parker guys knock Tracy guys.

Politics are politics everywhere

Some of us (Mike, Tess, and I) were both. Some of the "Seniors" started in Tracy stuff before evolving back to American Kenpo and EPAK.

Just some perspective and I don't knock 'em.

-Michael

 

[Carol]

Yeah, Tracy guys knock Parker guys, Parker guys knock Tracy guys.

They do?

Sheesh if there is anyone that deserves to be the butt of a bloody Kenpo political argument, it's me. Most EPAK purists could argue that I don't study EPAK at all, studying a rotating curriculum, no structured belt charts, and...yeah, it took me 6 months to learn how to do a round kick and my instructor will admit it still stink...er..needs improvement. Good thing I'm not quitting...whatever the heck it is I do for a living.

I ask a question, I get answers. I get criticism of my training that is constructive....and the answers have nothing to do with what Wil Tracy said on someone else's website or what my instuctor's instructor's instructor said to someone else's instructors' instructors' instructor 25 years ago.

Perhaps its because Tracy Kenpo and Parker Kenpo is black belts that are out there making it real for their students...from a gifted fighter to a hypermanic computer geek that's more stubborn than talented.

To say we knock each other is not only incorrect, it's pretty damn disrespectful to the skills and the sacrifices of the folks that have have done something with their art.

Andrew sir, I'm surprised to see such a sweepingly negative description in general. To see it from a MartialTalk moderator is very disappointing.

 

[jfarnsworth]

They do?


Andrew sir, I'm surprised to see such a sweepingly negative description in general. To see it from a MartialTalk moderator is very disappointing.

He's only speaking truth. I didn't see it in a negative way rather than just making a statement.

 

[Seig]

Please note, he was not speaking as a moderator but as a member.

 

[Andrew Green]

Andrew sir, I'm surprised to see such a sweepingly negative description in general. To see it from a MartialTalk moderator is very disappointing.

Disclaimer: Martialtalk can not be held accountable for my personal views and opinions, which, unless there is notice that something is official, is what everything I write is

But, it's true. Not just kenpo, right across the board... errr... no this board, the metaphorical one. Different branches of the same karate styles fight, TKD has it's WTF vs ITF vs ATA fun, political fighting is far too common in martial arts circles, all by people that want to be the "true" system and show their competitors are doing a inferior art. Same as Duracell and Energizer, Pepsi and Coke, etc. We can look from the outside and scratch our heads as both sides are usually pretty much providing the same stuff, for the same prices, and could swap the names on the two and most people would never even notice, yet they fight....