The importance of stances

[Kittan Bachika]

Awhile back I was practicing a form and decided to do it without any of the stances and I quickly noticed there was absolutely no power in my technique without my stances which consisted of front and back stances.

My question is then how do you take advantage of the power of stances if you are unable to get into a stance?

 

[kaizasosei]

Stances are very important. I think a stance can be compared to or likened to the aura of a martial artist. Like the aura(irrespective if it exists and you believe it), stance can be magnified or expanded as well as shrunk down or contracted.
Also for firearms use or response in stressy situations, you will only have so much controll as your stance is ready. So for the most part the stance when reacting has to expand itself to conquer everything as fast as possible. But it takes lots of training to make reactions second nature in real situations.
It's like all the sudden nervous energy and freaked out reaction is chanelled into the legs while the upperbody is calm and collected. This could be relatively silent, or the legs could make the sound of a small stampede while they spread to form the correct base. At this point the voice is the next big thing if needed.
If unable to form a good stance, you'd have to make do with the position you are in.?? Of course, the best and most powerfull striking comes from good body dynamics and balance.

j

j

 

[Draven]

I think stances are less important then their transitions. Being at point a or point b doesn't generate power. You have no power in front stance and none in a back stance. But, you get a lot of power by moveing from a back stance to a front stance when punching for example.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I think stances are less important then their transitions. Being at point a or point b doesn't generate power. You have no power in front stance and none in a back stance. But, you get a lot of power by moveing from a back stance to a front stance when punching for example.

What he said.

Training to be in the various stances and to do them correctly is important and something that I would consider a part of footwork drills.

Aside from that, some stance work in class is also done to condition the legs.

Daniel

 

[jks9199]

Stances and transitions/shifts/pivots/steps are both vital, and they go hand in hand.

Stance means positioning the body for combat, and there are several types of stances. Stances provide a point of stability and a foundation or structure. Imagine firing a shotgun on rollerskates... Wouldn't work so good, would it? In the same way, without some sort of stability, the force and energy in a punch or kick will knock you over, rather than your opponent. Even jujitsu/judo/grappling arts utilize stances, both as preparatory positions or for throws, and, utilizing a different sort of "stance", in creating solid body structure to accomplish a lock or hold.

Stepping, shifting, and pivoting are all ways of moving between stances. The best punch is useless without a way to deliver it to the target, since most people won't simply walk up, stop in range, and say "Hit me!" The body in motion, created by the transition or step, supported by the stance, generates the power.

 

[ATC]

I think stances are less important then their transitions. Being at point a or point b doesn't generate power. You have no power in front stance and none in a back stance. But, you get a lot of power by moveing from a back stance to a front stance when punching for example.

This is it for the most part in a nutshell. Well said.

 

[MJS]

Awhile back I was practicing a form and decided to do it without any of the stances and I quickly noticed there was absolutely no power in my technique without my stances which consisted of front and back stances.

My question is then how do you take advantage of the power of stances if you are unable to get into a stance?

Stances are, IMHO, the foundation to everything we do. Many times, I think people hear the word stance, and assume that it means that you're stationary, however, that can't be any further from the truth. They're simply transitions from one move to the next.

But you're right...without them, nothing we do will have any power.

 

[Flying Crane]

Stances and transitions/shifts/pivots/steps are both vital, and they go hand in hand.

Stance means positioning the body for combat, and there are several types of stances. Stances provide a point of stability and a foundation or structure. Imagine firing a shotgun on rollerskates... Wouldn't work so good, would it? In the same way, without some sort of stability, the force and energy in a punch or kick will knock you over, rather than your opponent. Even jujitsu/judo/grappling arts utilize stances, both as preparatory positions or for throws, and, utilizing a different sort of "stance", in creating solid body structure to accomplish a lock or hold.

Stepping, shifting, and pivoting are all ways of moving between stances. The best punch is useless without a way to deliver it to the target, since most people won't simply walk up, stop in range, and say "Hit me!" The body in motion, created by the transition or step, supported by the stance, generates the power.

I agree with this whole heartedly.

Mobility is certainly important. But so is a solid stance for the delivery of the technique. Without it, you significantly bleed off the power in your strikes or throws, or whatever you are trying to do.

You do not need to hold the stance for a long time. You do not need to drop into a deep horse stance or a deep forward stance in order to face off with your opponent. But for the moment when you are firing off your blow, it is vital that you hit your stance hard and root strongly.

I suspect that a lot of people don't know how to root. People think that you just drop straight down and make the stance deeper, and this is rooting. It's not.

Deeper and wider stances will develop strength in the legs, and that is also important. But rooting is something else, and does not necessarily mean that you need to be in an especially deep stance.

Rather, when you are in your stance, exert pressure outwards in both directions with legs, into your feet. Press your feet away from each other, into the ground. If you are in a horse stance, press your feet outward to the side. If in a forward type stance, then press forward and backward with your feet. This outward pressure keeps your torso centered and gives you the grip and stability against the ground to be much more solid. If you get this figured out and then throw punches off of this kind of base, your punches will be much stronger, and people will have a harder time pushing you around.

If you develop your stances this way, they will be stronger and your ability to root will be much better. Then, when actually fighting, you can keep your mobility but also be able to hit the stance and root solidly when you strike, then switch back to being mobile again.

 

[Shifu Steve]

Awhile back I was practicing a form and decided to do it without any of the stances and I quickly noticed there was absolutely no power in my technique without my stances which consisted of front and back stances.

My question is then how do you take advantage of the power of stances if you are unable to get into a stance?

You're question confuses me a little because to my knowledge you cannot avoid ending up in some form of a stance in between movements. Consider taking a step forward. The positions prior to and after the step would both be stances. That being said, if you are speaking more to an ideal stance for generating power for a strike or leverage for some type of grappling than the answer is footwork. In the context of a fight if you find yourself in a position (stance) that is not to your advantage than you should move. Sounds simple doesn't it? It's actually not as simple as you would think. Each time you move your opponent does as well so you have to both anticipate their movement and subsequently put yourself in a position that changes the circumstances of advantage. You may have to transition between multiple stances to do so. Training from a variety of stances will enable you to learn the muscle memory to take advantage of multiple aspects of a fight. Combining footwork and handwork in line drills inspired by your forms will go a long way to help you answer some of these questions.

 

[Kittan Bachika]

I think stances are less important then their transitions. Being at point a or point b doesn't generate power. You have no power in front stance and none in a back stance. But, you get a lot of power by moveing from a back stance to a front stance when punching for example.

Good point. So I guess the stances provide the foundation for the transitions? The better the stance, the better the transition.

I agree with this whole heartedly.

Mobility is certainly important. But so is a solid stance for the delivery of the technique. Without it, you significantly bleed off the power in your strikes or throws, or whatever you are trying to do.

You do not need to hold the stance for a long time. You do not need to drop into a deep horse stance or a deep forward stance in order to face off with your opponent. But for the moment when you are firing off your blow, it is vital that you hit your stance hard and root strongly.

I suspect that a lot of people don't know how to root. People think that you just drop straight down and make the stance deeper, and this is rooting. It's not.

Deeper and wider stances will develop strength in the legs, and that is also important. But rooting is something else, and does not necessarily mean that you need to be in an especially deep stance.

Rather, when you are in your stance, exert pressure outwards in both directions with legs, into your feet. Press your feet away from each other, into the ground. If you are in a horse stance, press your feet outward to the side. If in a forward type stance, then press forward and backward with your feet. This outward pressure keeps your torso centered and gives you the grip and stability against the ground to be much more solid. If you get this figured out and then throw punches off of this kind of base, your punches will be much stronger, and people will have a harder time pushing you around.

If you develop your stances this way, they will be stronger and your ability to root will be much better. Then, when actually fighting, you can keep your mobility but also be able to hit the stance and root solidly when you strike, then switch back to being mobile again.

Ok. So then it is possible to be able to generate full power from the stances eve if you are not in a full stance as long as you are rooted and have properly practiced your stance work?

 

[Flying Crane]

Ok. So then it is possible to be able to generate full power from the stances eve if you are not in a full stance as long as you are rooted and have properly practiced your stance work?

I guess that begs the question, what is a full stance and what is a "not full" stance?

People in training will often use a deeper and/or wider stance than they would use in actuall fighting. The training stances are meant to build strength in the legs and (hopefully) develop your ability to root if you are doing it correctly. But as was stated above, mobility is important so in a real fight you might not want to be so low and deep.

If you learn to do that in training, you should be able to apply the root in a less deep, and less wide stance. The stance itself is sort of an ideal position, and that's why we train with it. But the chaotic reality of combat may prevent you from hitting that ideal stance. So you do the best you can under the circumstances, and you apply your root nevertheless. The bottom line is, if your feet are floating, you severely reduce the power you can deliver in your technique. As was said above, try shooting off a shotgun while standing in rollerskates.

I think that someone who doesn't fully understand how to root will, as I stated previously, just sink straight down. When throwing a punch, they tend to throw their body forward into the punch, to get that body mass behind it. This can actually be fairly effective if done well. But it's better to root in your stance, keep your body neutral between your feet, and use your rear foot to drive down into the ground and torque thru the waist to pivot and deliver the punch forward. But when I say pivot, I don't necessarily mean pivot into a different stance (some systems do, others do not, and sometimes it depends on the circumstances). Rather, root in and keep your stance, but pivot thru the waist and hips to drive the punch. Don't lean the upper body into it. It takes some time and dilligent training under a teacher who understands this. But in my opinion it has the potential to give better results in the long run, tho it may take longer to really "get it".

regardless, tho, I think getting a stronger sense of being rooted will help what you are doing, and that is what is so important about stance training.

Getting back to your original post, go back and practice your form again, using clean stances as you understand them, but apply the rooting in every single movement and every single stance and the application of every single technique throughout the form. Go slow and make sure every part is right. Do not rush thru it or you will get sloppy. See how that makes you feel in your form. I bet your lower legs and feet will be much more fatigued until your strength and rooting improves. But you should also feel a noticeable improvement in the delivery of power.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I think stances are less important then their transitions. Being at point a or point b doesn't generate power. You have no power in front stance and none in a back stance. But, you get a lot of power by moveing from a back stance to a front stance when punching for example.

The power is in the pivot.
Sean

 

[Draven]

Good point. So I guess the stances provide the foundation for the transitions? The better the stance, the better the transition.

The power is in the pivot.
Sean

The same answer will apply to both here, think of your stances as an example of point A: Back Stance to point B: Front Stance to point C: Front Stance. You can practice going from a back stance, to front stance to a back stance & how it's relate to actual application is this;
Attacker: Punches at your face...
You: Knife hand Block the punching arm while your head of out range of the punch while moving into the back stance...
Attacker: Draws back with other hand
You: Turn the "blocking hand" into a straight punch putting your body wieght behind the punch by moving in forward stance. Followed up with Reverse Punch & again while pivoting & rotating the body you still move into a variation of the Front Stance & still bend the lead knee to transfer the power forward. (in reference to Sean's comment since I was thinking straight punch & I think you were thinking reverse punch).

The idea of stance is the end result of a principle based on physical mechanics, primarily footwork, transfer of wieght, maintaining balance and stability & rotation of the body. Usually, instructors don't tell you all this because they either a) expect you to figure it out on your own or b) don't know it academicaly but have a natural feel for the application of techniques...

 

[seasoned]

As was stated, stances are for ground relationship while in motion and rooting (balance), best for the practice floor. Once you get this concept, you need to flow and be relaxed. In combat, if you "hit" your stance every time, as in a momentary freeze, you will look robotic. We don't fight like kata, and this is why a lot of people don't like kata. We fight with the concepts of kata.

 

[Draven]

Yeah I kinda left that out in my explaination; got tunnel visioned. Thanks seasoned for clearing that up.

 

[Shifu Steve]

... We don't fight like kata, and this is why a lot of people don't like kata. We fight with the concepts of kata.

Very important point in my opinion. To say kata is unrelated to an actual fight or impractical is missing the point. As Seasoned points out, it's the ideas behind those movements, stances, etc that kata teaches us so they can be employed fluidly and without thought. The kata is simply a book on a shelf that one can reference for ideas.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Very important point in my opinion. To say kata is unrelated to an actual fight or impractical is missing the point. As Seasoned points out, it's the ideas behind those movements, stances, etc that kata teaches us so they can be employed fluidly and without thought. The kata is simply a book on a shelf that one can reference for ideas.

Exactly; if you don't fight like Kata... why?
sean

 

[bowser666]

In my opinion stances are fundamental in everything we do. Remember it is all about kinetics and linking energy. Feet control the legs, which control the hips , which control the waist, which controls shoulders, then arms , etc.......... Think about the difference between punching a bag while firmly rooted, as opposed to no root and then punching. Big difference in energy transference and power. There is a reason you train in stances. For example, in Kung fu we train stances on a daily basis. The goal for us for black belt is 2 minutes per stance ( Harder than it sounds. This is just considered to be proficient. At higher levels for example, Horse stance we have to balance a staff on our thighs for 5-10 minutes. Knees bent at 90 degrees mind you. I still hvae a long way to go for that but someday I hope to be there. Stances make your legs strong and help , endurance , and flexibility as well.


Just my $.02 , and now I will get out of my horse stance from atop my soap box

 

[Touch Of Death]

In my opinion stances are fundamental in everything we do. Remember it is all about kinetics and linking energy. Feet control the legs, which control the hips , which control the waist, which controls shoulders, then arms , etc.......... Think about the difference between punching a bag while firmly rooted, as opposed to no root and then punching. Big difference in energy transference and power. There is a reason you train in stances. For example, in Kung fu we train stances on a daily basis. The goal for us for black belt is 2 minutes per stance ( Harder than it sounds. This is just considered to be proficient. At higher levels for example, Horse stance we have to balance a staff on our thighs for 5-10 minutes. Knees bent at 90 degrees mind you. I still hvae a long way to go for that but someday I hope to be there. Stances make your legs strong and help , endurance , and flexibility as well.


Just my $.02 , and now I will get out of my horse stance from atop my soap box

You could always solidify into your target, which only requires a bit of momentum and one foot making contact with the ground to get the same effect.
sean