Doctor_Mushin
White Belt
Hi guys and girls,
This is a piece i just finished now after some time now considering the difference's in behaviour, respect (or lack ther of) in many M.A forums.
I am as i'm sure you all realise totally new to M.T so this is in no way based on views i've come to due to the conduct in Martial Talk. Its simply something I've written, as honestly...I'm a little fed up with some of the characters that poison the otherwise clean waters of M.A discussion. Anyway enough said, and Here it is. Thanks in advance for your consideration, your thoughts and your views.
Dok
I was discussing this subject with my partner just last night and had the thought that it might be interesting to see what thoughts or opinions other forum using MAists might have. This is the Docs take on the matter. (Dont worry, I dont refer to myself in the 3rd person very often
Its my belief that the martial arts and the internet are potentially a disastrous mix.
I have always been a part of M.A styles that hold a strong code of conduct sacred. The often unspoken rule of politeness, respect for your common M.Aists, and above all, for your senior grades and masters has been a staple in my training, and I would never want it to be any other way.
On a somewhat opposite side of the coin, the internet often seems to hold a light hearted dont take anything serious approach to its behavior. Where taking anything said to heart, or to take offense is considered the trait of a newbie and sometimes laughed at.
When these two cultures and unwritten codes of behavior are smashed together into the culture of M.A forums something strange and in my humble opinion, ugly often occurs.
Some users seem to hold the Internet conduct as their primary guide for their behavior, where others such as myself find the code of respect observed in M.As to be the rule of thumb.
Is there a right and wrong way to approach this? And if so, which approach is most befitting.
I am of the belief that regardless of the fact that the internet is our medium for discussion, we congregate as martial artists. When using other forums or chat on other subject matter I adapt to the commonly held approach to the net, and take everything with a grain (or I should say kilo) of salt.
I have found many in M.A forums find my serious and personal nature in forums to be comedic and over the top and that is their right. I simply do not believe that the medium or forum of discussion is more significant or powerful then the subject matter.
Should we all take nothing said seriously, and simply laugh at trollish and rude behavior? If any student or instructor within my two styles ever spoke to another student in the manner that many do in M.A forums, I would be putting them down for push ups, or even ejecting them from the dojo and or style.
Should we use this level of seriousness in M.A forums? Should we simply accept the rude and obnoxious manner so often used in the virtual communities of chat and other internet based forums? Or is this simply a matter of each to his or her own?
It is my belief that regardless of using the internet as our means of discussion, we are discussing M.A, as M.Aists, and should behave accordingly. I have had M.Aists of 20-30 years, whom are sometimes 3rd and 4th Dan speaking in a manner that would never be accepted in even the most Mc of Mc dojos. Where the level of blatant disrespect is considered totally acceptable as after all its just the internet
I so strongly disagree! Yes we use the internet, but if we speak in such manner, and treat each other in such manner, we only lower ourselves to the level of so many pointless and immature chat rooms that are so abundant in cyber space. By doing so, i believe we do not deserve the title, or to consider ourselves artists. Our code of conduct should hold true in all we say and all we do.
I have found several M.A forums to be extremely enjoyable, only to be attacked by a disrespectful, rude, and annoying troll, and after a string of attacks and counter attacks found myself on the receiving end of a ban.
It is my weakness I realize, but when venom is spit at me, I spit it back ten fold. I really need to work on biting my tongue. That said, is it so unreasonable to expect to not HAVE to bite my tongue? To expect a level of maturity and respect as is practiced in the dojo practiced on our M.A forums? Perhaps it is. Ive yet to establish a rock solid stance on this.
I was banned this very day from another forum after a slanging match between the head moderator and admin of another site after he initially attacked me for (get this) not using my real name. To the best of my knowledge, the law of every democratic country in this great world is that a man has the right to use any name he so desires as long as the intent of using said name (alias) is not criminal.
My very first day using that forum, and within 3-4 posts I was attacked by this man for not using the name I bare on my birth certificate, although this is completely acceptable by the law of the land here in Australia and I would think the U.K and U.S.A. Is that by any stretch of the imagination right?
I believe that little disagreement only fueled a dislike for me and my posts, and I found for the next several days every post I made was attacked by this fellow, until I reached breaking point .and responded with these very words
How about this, youre right youre always right. End of post ..and that resulted in a ban. I believe this man along with many other mod's and admin's blur the line between reality and their forum. Perhaps their lives lack fulfillment, perhaps they long for some power and or authority, and only find that power in their little virtual nest where they flex on every opportunity.
I do not believe I should have to suck up to or attempt to get on the good side of any person who is a moderator. If I agree with, respect them, I will definitely show this. On the other hand, if I dislike their lack of respect for other forum users, or disagree with their view on a topic, Ill say so.
I find it disgusting how on these sites people will speak so glowingly of the sites moderators, and then in some cases express their contempt for their arrogant behavior when in a safe forum such as a messenger (MSN, yahoo, etc.)
I have expressed the deepest respect for others on forums before. Where I all but bow down to their superior knowledge, rank, intelligence, etc. but only if I believe they are truly deserving. I do not respect a man for who he is, but for what he is. An arrogant loathsome man, who is a moderator, and instructor, or a president even, is still arrogant and loathsome. On the other hand, a janitor who is wise, intelligent, respectful and knowledgeable is still all of these things. He just also happens to be a Janitor.
In short, I am the first to bow down respectfully, but that respect must be deserved. Those who expect to be respected simply because of the position they hold, be it a president, a master, or ..hmmmm a moderator/admin? Will be sorely mistaken if they expect me to drop to my metaphoric knees for them, based on that position.
But thats just how I think, how I am, and how I live.
Any thoughts would be appreciated. I have no issue with those who disagree, its those who are rudely disagreeable.
thanks everybody, and be well
Doc Mushin
This is a piece i just finished now after some time now considering the difference's in behaviour, respect (or lack ther of) in many M.A forums.
I am as i'm sure you all realise totally new to M.T so this is in no way based on views i've come to due to the conduct in Martial Talk. Its simply something I've written, as honestly...I'm a little fed up with some of the characters that poison the otherwise clean waters of M.A discussion. Anyway enough said, and Here it is. Thanks in advance for your consideration, your thoughts and your views.
DokThe peculiar hybrid of M.A and internet etiquette.
I was discussing this subject with my partner just last night and had the thought that it might be interesting to see what thoughts or opinions other forum using MAists might have. This is the Docs take on the matter. (Dont worry, I dont refer to myself in the 3rd person very often
Its my belief that the martial arts and the internet are potentially a disastrous mix.
I have always been a part of M.A styles that hold a strong code of conduct sacred. The often unspoken rule of politeness, respect for your common M.Aists, and above all, for your senior grades and masters has been a staple in my training, and I would never want it to be any other way.
On a somewhat opposite side of the coin, the internet often seems to hold a light hearted dont take anything serious approach to its behavior. Where taking anything said to heart, or to take offense is considered the trait of a newbie and sometimes laughed at.
When these two cultures and unwritten codes of behavior are smashed together into the culture of M.A forums something strange and in my humble opinion, ugly often occurs.
Some users seem to hold the Internet conduct as their primary guide for their behavior, where others such as myself find the code of respect observed in M.As to be the rule of thumb.
Is there a right and wrong way to approach this? And if so, which approach is most befitting.
I am of the belief that regardless of the fact that the internet is our medium for discussion, we congregate as martial artists. When using other forums or chat on other subject matter I adapt to the commonly held approach to the net, and take everything with a grain (or I should say kilo) of salt.
I have found many in M.A forums find my serious and personal nature in forums to be comedic and over the top and that is their right. I simply do not believe that the medium or forum of discussion is more significant or powerful then the subject matter.
Should we all take nothing said seriously, and simply laugh at trollish and rude behavior? If any student or instructor within my two styles ever spoke to another student in the manner that many do in M.A forums, I would be putting them down for push ups, or even ejecting them from the dojo and or style.
Should we use this level of seriousness in M.A forums? Should we simply accept the rude and obnoxious manner so often used in the virtual communities of chat and other internet based forums? Or is this simply a matter of each to his or her own?
It is my belief that regardless of using the internet as our means of discussion, we are discussing M.A, as M.Aists, and should behave accordingly. I have had M.Aists of 20-30 years, whom are sometimes 3rd and 4th Dan speaking in a manner that would never be accepted in even the most Mc of Mc dojos. Where the level of blatant disrespect is considered totally acceptable as after all its just the internet
I so strongly disagree! Yes we use the internet, but if we speak in such manner, and treat each other in such manner, we only lower ourselves to the level of so many pointless and immature chat rooms that are so abundant in cyber space. By doing so, i believe we do not deserve the title, or to consider ourselves artists. Our code of conduct should hold true in all we say and all we do.
I have found several M.A forums to be extremely enjoyable, only to be attacked by a disrespectful, rude, and annoying troll, and after a string of attacks and counter attacks found myself on the receiving end of a ban.
It is my weakness I realize, but when venom is spit at me, I spit it back ten fold. I really need to work on biting my tongue. That said, is it so unreasonable to expect to not HAVE to bite my tongue? To expect a level of maturity and respect as is practiced in the dojo practiced on our M.A forums? Perhaps it is. Ive yet to establish a rock solid stance on this.
I was banned this very day from another forum after a slanging match between the head moderator and admin of another site after he initially attacked me for (get this) not using my real name. To the best of my knowledge, the law of every democratic country in this great world is that a man has the right to use any name he so desires as long as the intent of using said name (alias) is not criminal.
My very first day using that forum, and within 3-4 posts I was attacked by this man for not using the name I bare on my birth certificate, although this is completely acceptable by the law of the land here in Australia and I would think the U.K and U.S.A. Is that by any stretch of the imagination right?
I believe that little disagreement only fueled a dislike for me and my posts, and I found for the next several days every post I made was attacked by this fellow, until I reached breaking point .and responded with these very words
How about this, youre right youre always right. End of post ..and that resulted in a ban. I believe this man along with many other mod's and admin's blur the line between reality and their forum. Perhaps their lives lack fulfillment, perhaps they long for some power and or authority, and only find that power in their little virtual nest where they flex on every opportunity.
I do not believe I should have to suck up to or attempt to get on the good side of any person who is a moderator. If I agree with, respect them, I will definitely show this. On the other hand, if I dislike their lack of respect for other forum users, or disagree with their view on a topic, Ill say so.
I find it disgusting how on these sites people will speak so glowingly of the sites moderators, and then in some cases express their contempt for their arrogant behavior when in a safe forum such as a messenger (MSN, yahoo, etc.)
I have expressed the deepest respect for others on forums before. Where I all but bow down to their superior knowledge, rank, intelligence, etc. but only if I believe they are truly deserving. I do not respect a man for who he is, but for what he is. An arrogant loathsome man, who is a moderator, and instructor, or a president even, is still arrogant and loathsome. On the other hand, a janitor who is wise, intelligent, respectful and knowledgeable is still all of these things. He just also happens to be a Janitor.
In short, I am the first to bow down respectfully, but that respect must be deserved. Those who expect to be respected simply because of the position they hold, be it a president, a master, or ..hmmmm a moderator/admin? Will be sorely mistaken if they expect me to drop to my metaphoric knees for them, based on that position.
But thats just how I think, how I am, and how I live.
Any thoughts would be appreciated. I have no issue with those who disagree, its those who are rudely disagreeable.
thanks everybody, and be well
Doc Mushin
