The folly of weapons control

[chinto]

Good heavens that's just not true! where did you get that information from? What is a 'reve'? We've never had them. There is also no such thing as rights of Englishmen as we have no constitution, we are subjects not citizens.

the shire reve (sp) is where the title sheriff .. but the peasant levies and archers of england came from the commoner freeman. in fact it was a law that you must practice with the bow at the butts for 6 hours as I remember on Sunday up through the Queen Elisabeth I, and it was a punishable offense not to!
King Henry V won agincourt in franc, and his father before him at curacy by the skill of the commoner who was skilled with a very effective weapon in the long bow. the men who used the bows and the short swords were commoners, not knights or other ranked aristocracy, but common men who owned their weapons, and were required by law to be practiced and proficient with the weapons!!! A Scottish minister was the man who developed the percussion cap lock system for fire arms to help make it easier to shoot water foul! ( yep the same "cap and ball " or " percussion lock" that was used for both the weapons in the US Civil War, and by the British across their empire's lenth and breath by both the military and sportsman.. ( yep absolutely no difference between the rifle or shot gun carried by a soldier or officer of the military and the commoner at that time! in 1880 you could buy the same martini henry .45 caliber rifle in London with out license that the British military carried and used at Roarke's Drift in the Zulu war! hell the maxim machine gun was as far as I know legal to buy in england in 1890 as in the USA... ( no law against it) but the cost was prohibitive, and besides most I am sure like in the USA felt no need for a heavy machine gun.
Not to mention a commoner in england up till the 20th century was allowed to have a weapon. weather he could afford a weapon is of question depending of the weapon. the commoners were in fact raised for defense of the realm in the time of the Spanish armada. ( let alone the war of the roses or the English "civil war" between Oliver Cromwell and King James.) hell even in WWII many a farmer in rural england had an old shotgun that was used by them in the Home Guard .. and more then one RAF pilot from the free polish and even a few British pilots faced that shotgun till the farmer was sure they were not German Pilots or Air Crew.

read any of the stories of the battle of Britain that mention shot down pilots from Poland and other occupied country's that were not English speaking.... hell if they did not have a shotgun or rifle, they came after them with pitchforks and scythes!

 

[Tez3]

Oliver Cromwell and King James? thats a new one on me.
You're quoting random bits of history which are almost correct but not quite. Henry beat the French yes but it was more than the longbow that won the war, that's a Shakespearan embellishment. There's no doubt it's what gave the English the advantage but you need to look at it as it was, not as a romantic play.
http://www.soton.ac.uk/research/southamptonstories/lawartsoc/agincourt.html

The archers in the English army were professional soldiers, there were also a good many mercenaries employed by the English in the Hundred Years War.
http://www.vlib.us/medieval/lectures/hundred_years_war.html

Most of you seem to think we aren't allowed weapons at all but I can assure you we are. I live in the country, most of us have shotguns, it's quite easy to get a shotgun license if you are reputable. Most of us shoot game here. It's always been a country pursuit, just a few miles from me is the grouse moors where wealthy Americans will pay to come and shoot. We also have lots of gun clubs around the country who use a huge variety of weapons. I believe Britain will do well in the shooting again in the upcoming Olympics in China.
I don't need to read RAF stories, I was in the RAF and at the time I joined up there were still several Battle of Britain pilots in. Yes I am really that old.
If you are interested in the history of weapons visit this site. it's the last word on modern and historical weapons from all over the world. If you ever get the chance to visit any of the musuems you won't regret it. Interestingly it supports the ban on knives campaigns.
http://www.royalarmouries.org/home

 

[Ahriman]

Even as it is off-topic here, let me emphasize something from the article Tez3 posted about Agincourt.
"Most were killed or injured in the melee, many by a swift dagger to the neck."
I'm getting very, very tired of the ages-old super-longbow story. The French lost that battle for various reasons, the longbow's ability to penetrate armour (be it plate or mail) is not among these reasons as it does not exist, except against the most inferior armours. And men-at-arms didn't really use inferior armour which is the reason of their low number. (low compared to later armies' numbers)

 

[FearlessFreep]

Irony

Guns campaigner stabbed to death

The grandson of prominent anti-gun campaigner Pat Regan has been arrested on suspicion of stabbing her to death.

 

[Tez3]

There's this as well, truly shocking. I don't know if although the children were stabbed to death it has actually anything to do with 'knife' crime as such.
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/0106_stabbing.shtml

 

[thardey]

Most of you seem to think we aren't allowed weapons at all but I can assure you we are. I live in the country, most of us have shotguns, it's quite easy to get a shotgun license if you are reputable. Most of us shoot game here. It's always been a country pursuit, just a few miles from me is the grouse moors where wealthy Americans will pay to come and shoot. We also have lots of gun clubs around the country who use a huge variety of weapons. I believe Britain will do well in the shooting again in the upcoming Olympics in China.

Well, why didn't you say so in the first place? I always wondered about the shotguns, it seems like an ideal weapon for Britain. You can't really introduce hunting rifles, since I don't believe there are many game deer running around, but shotguns make sense. Plus, they're one of the best home-defense weapons available.

Can you own shotguns in the city?

 

[KenpoTex]

and, adding to the above question:

-What is the process for obtaining a shotgun license?
-What are the criteria for eligibility?
-Can you actually keep the shotguns in your house?
-How badly are you going to be screwed if you shoot a home invader?

 

[Darth F.Takeda]

The UK is an example of a once powerfull, proud and principled nation that has lost it's balls and reason to socilaist influence and politicol correctness.

Many Britts I have known bemoan the slow, rot of their Nation's pride and identaty and say their is a good number back home that think like they do, but England is not for the English anymore, it's for all the Commonwealthers who have come nto their country.

Vote for Obama and you wll be putting us another step closer to that fate or another AMerican civil war.

 

[Sukerkin]

There is certainly an element of truth in what you say, Darth.

However, I don't really think it advances this particular debate as such. That would, perhaps, be a very good topic for another thread if you fancy starting it - might get a bit heated tho'.

 

[Darth F.Takeda]

I'd like to hear your take on it, I am not saying I am an expert on the UK (Read about and admire it and the art that come from it and get alonmg well with most Britts I meet.) but I do see some scarry simularities to what has happend there and what is happining here.