The difference

[Gerry Seymour]

Goju Ryu is an Okinawan art that emphasizes Sanchin training and principles of movement and generation of power. Its techniques are executed in a direct forward facing body, for the most part. The footwork of Goju Ryu always moves in an arc, and the feet always meet and separate. Centerline theory is predominant in all techniques. The movements of the kata teach coiling, spiraling and shaking power to effectuate the techniques.

Shotokan is a modified form of Shorin Ryu, which was taught by Funakoshi Gichin - an Okinawan, to the Japanese. Shorin kata emphasize whipping power and relaxed transitions into power. Shotokan does not use these concepts, and is more straightforward punching, blocking, kicking and takedowns and throws. It is more physical in nature and forges muscular strength. The kata are variations of Shorin Ryu kata, but they are applied in very different ways.

I learned something new about Shotokan today. Thank you.

 

[letsplaygames]

"Shotokan is a modified form of Shorin Ryu, which was taught by Funakoshi Gichin - an Okinawan, to the Japanese. Shorin kata emphasize whipping power and relaxed transitions into power. Shotokan does not use these concepts, and is more straightforward punching, blocking, kicking and takedowns and throws. It is more physical in nature and forges muscular strength. The kata are variations of Shorin Ryu kata, but they are applied in very different ways."


Shotokan is Modified form of Shorin Ryu?

Doesn't Funokoshi's linage predate any existing Shorin Ryu linage? Coming before what people think Modern Shorin Ryu is... How can it be a modified form?

Modern Shotokan is not that far removed from what Funakoshi taught.

linage that is close to Funakoshi O-Sensei i.e. Nakayama's JKA, Nishiyama AAKF... My linage i.e. ISKF Okazaki ( both my instructors trained under Okazaki Sensei...) and there are others equally close to the source. (Kanazawa's SKIF comes to mind.) Train a lot of what people think of as Shorin waza.

Shorin compared to Shotokan ... in a non specific general sense... Usually its the angles that are different, Shotokan is more direct, more linear. Shorin is more circular, but that is it. Personally I think Karate is Karate... there is good karate and there is bad karate... nothing more.

The problem with Shotokan is it got to big for it's breeches in many parts of the world. Joe lunch bucket, who never went through a JKA formatted Instructor training course, got a dan grade then opened a dojo and called it Shotokan Karate.

the result.. lots and lots of ????

 

[Koryuhoka]

"Shotokan is a modified form of Shorin Ryu, which was taught by Funakoshi Gichin - an Okinawan, to the Japanese. Shorin kata emphasize whipping power and relaxed transitions into power. Shotokan does not use these concepts, and is more straightforward punching, blocking, kicking and takedowns and throws. It is more physical in nature and forges muscular strength. The kata are variations of Shorin Ryu kata, but they are applied in very different ways."


Shotokan is Modified form of Shorin Ryu?

Doesn't Funokoshi's linage predate any existing Shorin Ryu linage? Coming before what people think Modern Shorin Ryu is... How can it be a modified form?

Modern Shotokan is not that far removed from what Funakoshi taught.

linage that is close to Funakoshi O-Sensei i.e. Nakayama's JKA, Nishiyama AAKF... My linage i.e. ISKF Okazaki ( both my instructors trained under Okazaki Sensei...) and there are others equally close to the source. (Kanazawa's SKIF comes to mind.) Train a lot of what people think of as Shorin waza.

Shorin compared to Shotokan ... in a non specific general sense... Usually its the angles that are different, Shotokan is more direct, more linear. Shorin is more circular, but that is it. Personally I think Karate is Karate... there is good karate and there is bad karate... nothing more.

The problem with Shotokan is it got to big for it's breeches in many parts of the world. Joe lunch bucket, who never went through a JKA formatted Instructor training course, got a dan grade then opened a dojo and called it Shotokan Karate.

the result.. lots and lots of ????

Karate is classified according to their kata. The Naha forms prevalent in Goju Ryu - Sanchin, Suparinpai, Sanseiru, Seisan(varies from Shorin's Seisan version), to name a few, can be found in Uechi Ryu - another Naha origin Ryu.

Shorin Systems were originally called - Shuri Te, and have Naihanchi, Passai, Chinto, Unsu, Gojushiho - to name a few. Then there are the Tomari City forms like Rohai, Wankan and others, which were absorbed when Shorin Ryu became the banner term.

It is important to point out that these styles were named according to the cities in which they were developed. Shorin became a unified name for the groups of kata that originate from Shuri AND Tomari. Also, the Kanji in which they were written dictate the pronunciation of the name. For instance - the Kanji for Shorin, is pronounced Matsubayashi, or even Matsuhayashi, when other radicals are added to the original kanji "Shorin". In translation, they all mean the same thing - Small Forest.

The style of Funakoshi predates the modernization of the names and what he studied was Shuri Te.

 

[Koryuhoka]

I learned something new about Shotokan today. Thank you.

You're welcome.

I see that, too. I don't see (outside the movements in the grappling hands) a lot of circles. But that might be me looking for circular movement as I'd define it, expecting more than is there.

Exactly. This I mentioned on another post saying the footwork moves in an "arc" shape. If you draw an arc, and continue the line, it meets up and becomes - eventually, a circle. Semantics. Many practitioners also modify what they have learned to 'personalize'. In my study of the versions of Bubishi I read, one thing was constant. The poem of the 8 fists. I began to apply the theories this poem outlines and things began to make more sense. These are some of the things left out of curriculum taught to Westerners. The 3rd line reads Howa GoJu wo Donto Su. Method of Hardness and Softness, Inhale and Exhale. These principles originate with the Chinese Hakka and Fujian Arts - Sink - float - swallow - spit. Another line says that the "feet advance and retreat - separate and meet". Combine all the concepts taught within this poem to ANY art, and you have something new. I tell people that the kata is the real sensei. But you also need a human sensei who knows the principles to guide you towards that understanding.