The concept of "open minded"

[Xue Sheng]

Bender: So do you know I'm going to do something before I do it?
God: Yes.
Bender: What if I do something else?
God: Then I don't know that.

OH man this is going off topic fast... or is it.. if one has an open mind they will likely see it as ok. And I did not know that was who played the voice of God, thanks

Bender: Cool... cool. I bet a lot of people pray to you, huh?
God: Yes, but there are so many asking so much, after a while, you just sort of tune it out.

 

[theletch1]

OH man this is going off topic fast... or is it.. if one has an open mind they will likely see it as ok. And I did not know that was who played the voice of God, thanks

Bender: Cool... cool. I bet a lot of people pray to you, huh?
God: Yes, but there are so many asking so much, after a while, you just sort of tune it out.

Yep, and I'm praying that this thread gets back on topic... fast.

 

[qwksilver61]

The new re-emerging studies on LSD & Psychotropics.........

 

[Ray]

And Last
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 or The Byrds - to Everything There Is a Season

I have two words for you: "Bob" "Seeger"

 

[Twin Fist]

Kacey,
maybe it would help if i give some examples of things that end up in my cat 4?

the 9-11 truthers
the US government faked the moon landing
Elvis is still alive

those sorts of things that have been proven to be false over and over and over and yet some people still choose to cling to them..

Not much gets in this cat. less than 1% by far

everything else is either 1,2, or 3

 

[Empty Hands]

Kacey,
maybe it would help if i give some examples of things that end up in my cat 4?

the 9-11 truthers
the US government faked the moon landing
Elvis is still alive

I'm with you there, brother. Some things just aren't worth taking seriously.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Some people are TOO open minded. All ideas are NOT ok. Child molestation, rape, murder, theft, etc, etc, may be fun for some people, should we be open minded and accept that? Of course not. Sadly, some do.

Don,

I would like to have an open minded discussion with you.

I make some statements and then ask a question or two. Then you reply and also make some statements and even ask a question or two of your own.

First: I am Circumcised. I understand why it is done for health reason and I respect that it is done for cultural and and religious reasons.

Second: I will argue that it is wrong to circumcise to show that all subjects should be discussed.

Does the child that is a baby have a choice in the mutilation of their genitalia? No their parents decide for them. Is this right? If you decided for your children does this make you a Child molester? I could see where such an argument could be made.

Yet it is accepted and it is practiced in many cultures and countries. But if people believe it is wrong and condemn me for thinking it is right, is that right? Or should they be willing to listen to what I have to say. In the end, one could argue that as long as they do their thing and I do mine then it is all fine.

As to your quote here:

I thought about that line. Some animals may well be more equal than others, but, some ideas, Female Genital Mutilation, forced marriages, honor killings, these are not equal to others.

The (Widespread and growing) belief that there are "Gray areas" is really horrible for the world. Morals matter. Claiming that horrific things are moral because a segment of society likes it that way is ludicrous, child molesters, rapists and serial killers, while not a religion or ethnicity think their behavior is hunky dory, but that certainly doesn't make it so.

Where do your morals come from? Is it religion? Is it belief in something greater?

Personally I think all religion is wrong, for they project what you are projecting here. That if someone does not believe as then then they are wrong and will be punished in this life or in some afterlife.

So can you prove to me that your morals have value. Can you prove to me that your morals have meaning to me? Being open minded is allowing you to express and try to convince me and or change my mind. Being closed minded even in the projection of being opening minded happens all the time. So while I agree that there are people that make me just want to reach out and thump them (* You are not one of them *) I still try to give then a chance to express their point. Of course one the point has been made and if one chooses to disagree and move on then so be it.

Can you explain to me why your morals are something that I should live for myself? Why are your morals better than mine?

Morals
Values
Ethics
Law

Morals are what are taught usually via religion but sometimes via culture.

Values are what people hold valuable as a group or individually.

Ethics is what is ethical via society or personally.

Law is what the people/ruler/law giver have/has decided to implement for society. These are usually what people have decided is best for society as a whole not always an individual.

In the past in some Native America Cultures that were nomadic, it was the RESPONSIBILITY of the oldest male child not of age or gone through rite of passage to sneak into the dwelling of the family that had a deformed baby. It was their responsibility and requirement as a child to remove this liability to their society and what would weaken their group. While in today's society, this is not required, nor practiced, as technology and standard of living has changed. But I will not stand forth and be the one to tell that culture that in their past they were wrong. I will talk with about what is done today and possible try to persuade them to think that education to the contrary of this practice is good. But, if they choose not to believe as I do, I will move on, and not deal with them. I do not condemn them nor do tell them they are wrong.

Of course you will continue to state that things like terrorism is just wrong. I will ask what about the Boston Tea Party which was about costing the British money and problems. They ended up winning and so it is not terrorism.

I do believe that we should be able to defend ourselves. I believe that killing to defend ourselves is required as an option. Be it individually or as a society. Be it capital punishment or removing a threat to our society. But if the others choose to leave us alone I believe we should leave them alone, but if they choose to pick a fight then I think we should end the fight as soon as possible and as quickly as possible.

I agree that some points have more meaning than others, as we all put different value on different ideas.

 

[Kacey]

Kacey,
maybe it would help if i give some examples of things that end up in my cat 4?

the 9-11 truthers
the US government faked the moon landing
Elvis is still alive

those sorts of things that have been proven to be false over and over and over and yet some people still choose to cling to them..

Not much gets in this cat. less than 1% by far

everything else is either 1,2, or 3

In the time of Galileo, everyone "knew" that the Earth was flat. This was accepted fact, and disputing it could get you killed. I'm sure that many educated persons accepted this "truth", and considered arguments to the contrary to be "crap", by the definition you give for your fourth category. Nonetheless, it was later proven (despite the remaining members of the Flat Earth Society) that the planet is, indeed, more or less spherical. I stand by my opinion (however close-minded it may be) that to dismiss something to the category of "crap" is limiting your options in an unnecessary fashion.

I do, however, thank you for the explanation.

 

[Archangel M]

You leave your mind open enough to "accept the possibility" of the elvis lives, no moon landing, etc. crap than your brain HAS fallen out.....

 

[Xue Sheng]

You leave your mind open enough to "accept the possibility" of the elvis lives, no moon landing, etc. crap than your

Now that would be Abnormal... or delusional

 

[morph4me]

Now that would be Abnormal... or delusional

Is that a bad thing? The voices can't agree:idunno:

 

[Big Don]

:lol:

Is that a bad thing? The voices can't agree:idunno:

 

[Tez3]

You leave your mind open enough to "accept the possibility" of the elvis lives, no moon landing, etc. crap than your brain HAS fallen out.....

Well we'd actually have to care about whether Elvis lives etc to think about it and I doubt many of us have the time or inclination to.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Is that a bad thing? The voices can't agree:idunno:

I honestly can't say at this time, my voice are currently debating the issue and so far I am losing the argument but on the bright side...I'm winning. :uhyeah:

 

[Kacey]

You leave your mind open enough to "accept the possibility" of the elvis lives, no moon landing, etc. crap than your brain HAS fallen out.....

No... but I do leave my mind open to the idea that "what everyone knows" may not be so, something too few people I know are willing to do.

 

[Ray]

In the time of Galileo, everyone "knew" that the Earth was flat. This was accepted fact, and disputing it could get you killed. I'm sure that many educated persons accepted this "truth", and considered arguments to the contrary to be "crap", by the definition you give for your fourth category. Nonetheless, it was later proven (despite the remaining members of the Flat Earth Society) that the planet is, indeed, more or less spherical. I stand by my opinion (however close-minded it may be) that to dismiss something to the category of "crap" is limiting your options in an unnecessary fashion.[\quote]


I used to believe that statement about the people of Galileo's time. I have come to doubt that they believed the world was flat. A very long time ago the Greeks knew the world was round and had calculated it's diameter with astonishing accuracy.

 

[Kacey]

In the time of Galileo, everyone "knew" that the Earth was flat. This was accepted fact, and disputing it could get you killed. I'm sure that many educated persons accepted this "truth", and considered arguments to the contrary to be "crap", by the definition you give for your fourth category. Nonetheless, it was later proven (despite the remaining members of the Flat Earth Society) that the planet is, indeed, more or less spherical. I stand by my opinion (however close-minded it may be) that to dismiss something to the category of "crap" is limiting your options in an unnecessary fashion.[\quote]


I used to believe that statement about the people of Galileo's time. I have come to doubt that they believed the world was flat. A very long time ago the Greeks knew the world was round and had calculated it's diameter with astonishing accuracy.

True... but lots of information was lost in the Dark Ages, and it took a long time to rediscover it.

 

[Makalakumu]

You leave your mind open enough to "accept the possibility" of the elvis lives, no moon landing, etc. crap than your brain HAS fallen out.....

The inability to accept even the remotest possibility that what you think you know may not, in fact, be true is close mindedness. Epistemology is a subject too nuanced for many to grasp, but it doesn't change the fact that knowledge is constantly being created and is constantly changing. In this kind of environment, there is no way that you can say one structure or another is absolute.

So...

1. There exists a possibility that Elvis still lives.
2. There exists a possibility that the government faked the moon landing.
3. There exists a possibility that 9-11 was an inside job.

What we "know" now may make all of this so remote as to seem ridiculous, but what we "know" now is not, nor will it ever, be static.

This is why it's so important to listen to people even if you disagree.

 

[Big Don]

I found this quote on GM Richard 'Huk' Planas' website.

"Open-mindedness is vastly overrated. Arriving at old age with a completely open mind may not be much of a character reference; it might mean you never cared very strongly about anything that ever happened to you."

Gary Sitten

 

[Sukerkin]

I don't know GM Planas so I can't parse that quote for how it fits in with his actual 'wholistic' view.

I do feel that it must be out of context as it appears to rather miss the point of how life experiences should change you.

Things happen to you, you mature (hopefull) and learn, thus shaping your perception of the world. Wise men are not those who refused to change their minds - they are the ones who took what life offered them in terms of experience and used it as a forge for their consciousness.

You have to take care in the 'tempering' process so that you do not become either too hard (and thus brittle) or too ductile (and thus overly malleable) but the great advantage of the human mind is that it can deal with non-absolutes. Things do not have to be "0" or "1" and that is what gives us mental flexability and the ability to 'intuit' an answer from incomplete evidence.

Well, getting a bit deep there for someone whose supposed to be packing his bags to go run around with sharps :lol:.