The Center of balance?

[exile]

I think this is why I view fluid drills as being more important than static ones, the only way you can understand the balance of a motion is doing that motion over and over again till you learn where to adjust it.

I agree. The nice thing about training balance using rear leg side kicks, I find, is that there is so much motion packed into so short a time---from waaaay back to waaay in front, coming in from that outer back leg, close in to the body and then out again. If you can stay in good balance with that much of a radical change in momentum and body setup, you're going to develop a lot of balance control in general.

 

[Bigshadow]

sorry, but no.

to send the center down, you also need to expand it equally upwards and outwards. otherwise, you'll be creating an imbalance where you will either stumble, fall, or loose your mobility in low stances. take a look at some good internal martial artists in low postures.

Take a look at a weight squatting 300 lbs. At the bottom of his full squat, is it 2 inches below his navel and 2 inches in? I don't think so.

 

[Robert Lee]

Years ago it was put to me that you have a center force of gravity That is your balance. Some people have a natural low centewr force of gravity while others do not. And as you lower your seld say in wider lower stance you also lower the gravity strengh. A person say 6 foot 5 inches Would have a weak banlance point in a natural position. A upset level a the hip joint or just above the waist. This would unstablelize there balance. Remember the concept of drawing power from the earth. It goes by solid rooting of your center for as you shift your body rotaion of power. So a lower settening closer to the earth maintains stronger balance. Also as we stumble we do what. Widen our legs lower or body to regain balnce. So body postion helps dictate balance And the concept of 2 inches below the navel directs balnce in relation to the force of gravity x height, weight And distance to the earth. Some people understand balnce as not leaning past you foot position For proper body stablization.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Great points guys! We all have a center and in all movements our center needs to adjust to stay in balance.

When off balance, the minds first forcus is to find balance before falling down (natural intincts). Good to train the body how to fall (Judo).

To create power..one needs to be balance (most times). Strong stances comes from balance. Strong kicks and punches comes with balance.

If one has NO balance? (off balance the other person)...the advantage is yours, unless he counters...than you counter back,and if counters your counter, than you counter his counter,counter, therefore you must always be ready to counter the counter.

Life is always a balancing act.....to stay right? ..one's mind need to be balance. (suggestion is use a scale). .........Aloha

PS:Thank-you for balancing your thoughts

 

[Bigshadow]

To create power..one needs to be balance (most times).

I would say all the time. If you don't have balance you do not have a good platform to launch any significant attack, everything is weak.

 

[Adept]

To be honest I've never really bought into the whole "centre" concept of balance. Thinking like that tends to focus itself far too much in balance during stances rather than balance during fluid movement.
And yes I do Aikido and Judo.
I just figuring focusing on one point for balance is inaccurate when its the base and frame which determines it.

Yes and no, really.

A persons centre of balance is somewhere around the belly button. However, it is more accurate to say that a person of average weight, standing upright and carrying no baggage (such as a backpack) has their centre of balance located near their belly button. A very fat person, a person squatting down, a person sitting or a person laying down will have their centre of balance somewhere else.

So it does move, depending on your stance and load, but it is always located in a single point. Move that point past the base (in this case, the edges of the feet) and you will begin to fall.

 

[exile]

Yes and no, really.

A persons centre of balance is somewhere around the belly button. However, it is more accurate to say that a person of average weight, standing upright and carrying no baggage (such as a backpack) has their centre of balance located near their belly button. A very fat person, a person squatting down, a person sitting or a person laying down will have their centre of balance somewhere else.

So it does move, depending on your stance and load, but it is always located in a single point. Move that point past the base (in this case, the edges of the feet) and you will begin to fall.

c

From the point of view of the mechanics of an irregularly shaped mass, of course, yes, this must be true. But the original thread question, which Bigshadow, Shotgun_Buddha and I were focusing on, was where do you feel your center of balance to be? And that's a different issue, because your subjective sensation of your own body doesn't necessarily match the kinetics of the situation...

 

[PeaceWarrior]

So my thread on balance wasnt good enough eh?

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Yes and no, really.

A persons centre of balance is somewhere around the belly button. However, it is more accurate to say that a person of average weight, standing upright and carrying no baggage (such as a backpack) has their centre of balance located near their belly button. A very fat person, a person squatting down, a person sitting or a person laying down will have their centre of balance somewhere else.

So it does move, depending on your stance and load, but it is always located in a single point. Move that point past the base (in this case, the edges of the feet) and you will begin to fall.

Im not disputing that there is a such thing as a centre of balance, thats just physics. What I was disputing is this concept that the centre is always around the same areas, which was what was being suggested.
I was instead figuring that whatever the centre point is, would be determined by position and situation.
I dislike the concept of the constant centred point because then people focus on maintaining stances that work with point, rather than learning how to control their balance in different positions that may arise.
For example someone focusing on keeping their balance and weight matching that point, would find it pretty awkward to perform a movement like a boxers slip. Which I think is probably one of the most useful things you can learn in striking....

 

[Fluffy]

If I raise my arms, will my center of balance change?

 

[Adept]

If I raise my arms, will my center of balance change?

Yes, but not by much.

 

[exile]

So my thread on balance wasnt good enough eh?

No, of course not! But a new thread sometimes comes along and sort of takes over the old. Look at the Tolkien thread---it was chugging along and then a new thread---where would you rather live, in the Star Wars universe or in Tolkien's world?---started up and now a lot of the posts about Tolkien are going to this second thread... it's just what happens in a conversation, no?

 

[Ybot]

Basic physics tells us the center of gravity depends on shape, and the distribution of mass within the shape. Change your shape and you change your center of gravity. I assume that when speaking of center of balance your talking about the center of gravity, because basicly as long as your center of gravity is over your supporting footprint you are in balance. You could balance on one toe (if it's strong enough) as long as you keep your center of gravity directly over that small footprint.

Now from a martial arts point of view your looking for a way to decrease your odd of being knocked off balance, so while technicly you are in balance if your center of gravity is close to the edge of your footprint, that may not be useful if it is easily knocked over the edge. Best way to stay in balance would be widen the footprint, and lower the center of gravity right in the center of the footprint. Look a Sumo.

 

[exile]

Basic physics tells us the center of gravity depends on shape, and the distribution of mass within the shape. Change your shape and you change your center of gravity [my emphasis--Exile]. I assume that when speaking of center of balance your talking about the center of gravity, because basicly as long as your center of gravity is over your supporting footprint you are in balance. You could balance on one toe (if it's strong enough) as long as you keep your center of gravity directly over that small footprint.

Ybot---I the issues in this thread are arising from the fact that the part I'ved bolded in your post isn't a matter of general agreement. I think some people are using CofM (or in the cases we're really interested in, CofGr) interchangeably with CofB, but I suspect not everyone is. I get the impression that the notion of CofB is being taken as not a dynamical concept of standard mechanics, which can be calculated---in principle, anyway!---if you know the shape and density of a physical object. It's rather some component of the MAists `body awareness', such that you can maintain your balance by controlling this location, and that you'll be informed of whatever adjustments to your body configuration are necessary via your sense of this location. It's something you sense about your own body, and is not in a simple one-to-one relation with the CoM/CoG.

I'm not sure this is so, but given the fact that your CoM changes as your body configuration changes---your CoG is way different when you're standing with one leg raised to waist height in front of you than it is when you're standing on both legs---the only way of meaningfully defining a notion of a constant CoB is if it's the sensation of a `control point' not necessarily the same as your CoM/CoG.

If that's the case, then `center of balance' doesn't necessarily correspond to a single location at all, because as various people on the thread have already noted about themselves, it's possible to have a kind of generalized sensation of balance and how to control it, rather than a local one. I just think people can and will differ widely on such issues (after all, as plenty of people have noted in print, not everyone responds to pressure-point strikes the same way; some people seem to have no nerves at certain locations where according to conventional wisdom you should pass our or whatever if you get hit there).

 

[exile]

I assume that when speaking of center of balance your talking about the center of gravity

Sorry, everyone---this is the part I had meant to bold in my last post.

 

[morph4me]

Ybot---I the issues in this thread are arising from the fact that the part I'ved bolded in your post isn't a matter of general agreement. I think some people are using CofM (or in the cases we're really interested in, CofGr) interchangeably with CofB, but I suspect not everyone is. I get the impression that the notion of CofB is being taken as not a dynamical concept of standard mechanics, which can be calculated---in principle, anyway!---if you know the shape and density of a physical object. It's rather some component of the MAists `body awareness', such that you can maintain your balance by controlling this location, and that you'll be informed of whatever adjustments to your body configuration are necessary via your sense of this location. It's something you sense about your own body, and is not in a simple one-to-one relation with the CoM/CoG.

I'm not sure this is so, but given the fact that your CoM changes as your body configuration changes---your CoG is way different when you're standing with one leg raised to waist height in front of you than it is when you're standing on both legs---the only way of meaningfully defining a notion of a constant CoB is if it's the sensation of a `control point' not necessarily the same as your CoM/CoG.

If that's the case, then `center of balance' doesn't necessarily correspond to a single location at all, because as various people on the thread have already noted about themselves, it's possible to have a kind of generalized sensation of balance and how to control it, rather than a local one. I just think people can and will differ widely on such issues (after all, as plenty of people have noted in print, not everyone responds to pressure-point strikes the same way; some people seem to have no nerves at certain locations where according to conventional wisdom you should pass our or whatever if you get hit there).

Well sure, if your going to get all technical and logical about it. I'm one of the people that was confusing Center of Gravity with Center of Balance . Now I have to revamp my thinking, . I hate when that happens.

I never actually stopped to consider the dynamics involved which would change the center of balance. Great food for thought.

 

[exile]

Well sure, if your going to get all technical and logical about it. I'm one of the people that was confusing Center of Gravity with Center of Balance . Now I have to revamp my thinking, . I hate when that happens.

I never actually stopped to consider the dynamics involved which would change the center of balance. Great food for thought.

Well, see, I'm not really sure that what I was saying was right... I sometimes run into the term `center of balance' but people don't usually say what they mean by it. Still_learning started the thread, and from the way he put it I kind of just assumed he was talking about a sensation rather than a physically definable location, and other times I've seen it used it gets used that way... but I don't know if everyone who uses the term means that... :idunno:

 

[morph4me]

Well, see, I'm not really sure that what I was saying was right... I sometimes run into the term `center of balance' but people don't usually say what they mean by it. Still_learning started the thread, and from the way he put it I kind of just assumed he was talking about a sensation rather than a physically definable location, and other times I've seen it used it gets used that way... but I don't know if everyone who uses the term means that... :idunno:

I don't know if what you're saying is right either, but it gave me a different perspective, and I was once told never to admit I was mistaken, always say the other guy misunderstood what I was saying

 

[exile]

I don't know if what you're saying is right either, but it gave me a different perspective, and I was once told never to admit I was mistaken, always say the other guy misunderstood what I was saying

Hey, if it works, use it---isn't that what we're always telling each other?
:wink1: