The Book of 5 Rings - kenpo viewpoint?

[Dan]

Hi,

Been reading through the Book of 5 Rings and I find it utterly compelling. A fascinating insight into a truly exceptional martial artist.

Personally I feel that there is some seriously useful practical insight contained in the book. One of the refreshing things about Musashi was his pragmatism, he never said "It's not who's right, it's who's left", but I reckon he would have agreed with the principle.

I am interested to hear opinion from other kenpo practitioners who have read the book.

What did you gain from it, does it influence your training or approach to your art? That kind of thing.

Hopefully this should start an interesting thread, there is definitely a wealth of knowledge and experience out there, and it would be great to collect some of it on this thread.

(I have posted a more specific question on the Sword Arts forum, I reckon the sword people have useful insights that might clarify and put into context some of the technical material that Musashi refers to)

Respectfully,

Dan

 

[MisterMike]

It's been a while since I've read it, but I don't recall too much applying to Kenpo. While his dueling strategies may have some use for any martial artist, his technical writings were more geared to the sword.

I'd say his 8 directions have a bit in common with Kenpo, if you look at the X and the + patters in the Forms and techniques.

Other than that, studying 2 swords is not really what you'll find at a Kenpo school.

Still a good read if you care about history and "old school" thought. I don't find many Parker Kenpo schools do though. Not to say they aren't out there.

 

[Dan]

I found the duelling strategies pretty much the best bit too.

The focus he puts on timing and rhythm got me especially interested as well - given that musashi was happy to fight armed opponents with only a wooden sword he must have been utterly confident in his ability to control a fight and strike at will.

The other thing that stood out for me was his attitude, he doesn't come across as a "traditional" martial arts master. His focus on reality testing, practicality, and his innovation and individualism struck me as being fairly in tune with the modern kenpo community.

The book struck me as being a really good list of key fighting strategies and rhythms.
I'm fairly new to kenpo as an art, one of the reasons for posting the thread was to see if there were people out there that had applied any of the strategies or principals to their training, or could identify useful parallels, drills etc.

:asian:

Dan

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Dan
Hi,

Been reading through the Book of 5 Rings and I find it utterly compelling. A fascinating insight into a truly exceptional martial artist.

Personally I feel that there is some seriously useful practical insight contained in the book. One of the refreshing things about Musashi was his pragmatism, he never said "It's not who's right, it's who's left", but I reckon he would have agreed with the principle.

I am interested to hear opinion from other kenpo practitioners who have read the book.

What did you gain from it, does it influence your training or approach to your art? That kind of thing.

Hopefully this should start an interesting thread, there is definitely a wealth of knowledge and experience out there, and it would be great to collect some of it on this thread.

(I have posted a more specific question on the Sword Arts forum, I reckon the sword people have useful insights that might clarify and put into context some of the technical material that Musashi refers to)

Respectfully,

Dan

A truely valuable book. A parallel for you to consider: book 1 II page 64. Book of five rings page 31.

 

[Randy Strausbaugh]

I've been reading the Go Rin no Sho for the last 26 years or so. Every time I read it (I have three different translations) I feel that I have barely scratched the surface of the material. I'm not always able to get more out of the book every time, but I always feel that there's more there. And, every now and then, I get a "lightbulb moment" (proof once again that a blind squirrel will find an acorn every now and then). I highly recommend this book to everyone, in and out of the arts. JMHO, of course.

 

[satans.barber]

I've been reading the Go Rin no Sho for the last 26 years or so

Slow reader?

Ian.

 

[TIGER DRAGON FIGHT]

i have to be honest i haven't even heard of it. it must be a kenpo book though if its in this forum. where can you find it?

 

[Mekugi]

i have to be honest i haven't even heard of it. it must be a kenpo book though if its in this forum. where can you find it?

Gorin no Sho (Book of Five Rings) is not a kempo book per se. It is one of the three books written by Miyamoto Musashi, a famous sword-guy. The other two are Hyoho Sanjugo Kajo and the Dokkodo.


http://www.hyoho.com/Hyoho2.html

For some serious research on the subject by the Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu

 

[GAB]

Yes, the book is a must read at least once or twice, more if you have a night you just want to read and let your mind wander into a space and time of antiquity, the way and thoughts of a warrior in the days of Feudel lords and Samurai. He passed shortly, after reciting or dictating, to one of his students,probably took his own life..I am sure he thought it was in good hands and as you can see it was..

It is a must I will say it once more, must read, three times I have said it, believe it, it is on the net to read and enjoy, but it should be in a true warriors night stand or book shelf. Do you have to believe your teacher or be friends? You must learn what he is teaching and has to offer, much insight, don't compare to Kenpo because of swords and oars and wooden sticks and boats and fog and weeds, and reeds.

Absorb the information that is there for you, from a man who was a great Warrior and Teacher.. From a time and place that you can only imagine, and read about. A culture that was at its passing, the insight for us is there.

We are so fortunate that it was translated into English for us to have for a guide into the past..But don't be fooled into thinking it is not what you need to know right now, It is so important that all Tracy students must/shall read and be able to discuss it with their Sensei, for that one Item alone I would pick Tracy lineage over Parkers in a heart beat..

I am not of either I am of of others, very Eclectic MA, if I do say so myself.. I am new to this board and have not done a profile, not that I put much stock into them myself, Just like other things on the various topics, we won't all agree but I am going to be nice now, not be quite as abrasive, I have been informed by many, I should not be so abrasive because I have so much to offer and so little time, Kung Fu Zu, said of the book we call, I ching "if I had another 50 years to study it, I still would not know It all". (or something like that) Pretty smart fellow..One of my favorites, there are so many greats, And like I say so little time, we are here to learn (this board) and discuss and contribute..Or??? Regards, G.

 

[Mekugi]

What??? I do believe you have watched "Last Samurai" a few too many times!

He passed shortly, after reciting or dictating, to one of his students,probably took his own life..I am sure he thought it was in good hands and as you can see it was.. G.

 

[Dan G]

Gorin no Sho (Book of Five Rings) is not a kempo book per se. It is one of the three books written by Miyamoto Musashi, a famous sword-guy. The other two are Hyoho Sanjugo Kajo and the Dokkodo.


http://www.hyoho.com/Hyoho2.html

For some serious research on the subject by the Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu

Thanks for the info mekugi - much appreciated.

Dan

(changed user name as forgot password and couldn't get back on the system - doh!)

 

[WalkingthePath13578]

I truley enjoyed the Book of Five Rings.


when you have a book like this, where if you consider it was written by a man who killed over 60 men in personal combat. It seems to me to carry some weight.

what to me was compeling, was that though written for the sword it can truley be applied to open hand. considering the book, as a whole is not a manual, (ex. step here, strike here..ect.) it is very much a social, psychological, and spiritual evaluation of combat, and your oppenant. When he speaks of conqureing the opponent with looks, body posture, and wits, it opens ones eyes to a life or death fight. though many of us will never face such a situation, this book, his thoughts ,on fighting for survival, at least for me, brought my studies to a new level.

I highly recommend this book to any who have not read it. next on my list is The Art of War, and the II Ching.

i would also recommend Liveing the Martial way, Zen in the Martial Arts, and i am currently trying to read Hagakure.


your brother in the arts,
Phyl Parsons
Raleigh, NC

 

[getgoin]

It's a very good book. I enjoy reading it, this thread makes me want to read it again.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Haven't read it ni many years; may have to give it a scan again. Used to be required reading, along with Infinite Insights, Tao of JKD, Funakoshi's bio, and the Tao Te Ching. Ayup. Time to dust off some books, and try to remember what I've forgotten.

As for it not applying to kenpo because it's about swords...I must disagree. Any strategic, martial thinking should be absorbed by any lifer or wannabe lifer.

D.

 

[TChase]

I believe Musashi's teachings absolutely parallels Kenpo...at least the way it's taught in the UKF. It covers the attack the attack mindset, domination of physical space(height/width/depth), outer rim, erect spine, manuevers, and much more. That's actually what I did my black belt thesis on. It applies to all combat whether armed or unarmed.

 

[Dan G]

Hi Tom! The thesis sounds fascinating!

I found the mind set content in the book awesome, but was also interested in the emphasis put on correct posture and alignment. As you say the importance of a straight spine is stressed in the book and in our system.

I also found it interesting that he puts emphasis on the importance of "floating the toenails" (I forget the exact phrasing). I understood this to mean not lifting the heel on the lead foot to avoid the hips bobbing during movement. I also remember from training a little in trad karate as a teen being told to always lift the toes "first" when executing a rear leg front kick, as it was explained as being more biomechanically efficient, prevents heel lifting, and reduces uneeded muscle tension that can slow the movement. As a broad interpretation it seems to me that Musashi considered economy of motion and correct biomechanics a key issue for the martial artist to address.

I haven't managed to dig much more out of it yet, but seeing some useful parallels and tips led me to start the thread to see what other insights people had. I don't (at the moment) see the physical side of his writing as being close enough to kenpo motion to be the most useful cross over manual, but Musashi seems to have a talent for distilling his art, and combat in general into its core principles, and I am sure there is a lot more in there to discover.

If you can spare the time to post further it would be interesting to hear more on some of the insights you gained from doing the thesis.

yours in kenpo,

Dan

 

[TChase]

I will try to PM you tomorrow when I have more time to sit down and type.

 

[Dan G]

I look forward to it.

Dan

 

[Simon Curran]

I bought The Book of Five Rings, Sun Tzu's Art of War, and I-Ching a couple of months ago and still haven't gotten around to reading any of them...

#note to self:- take thumb out of butt and book down from shelf#