That's a lot of forms

[skribs]

I've seen Karate instructors teach "kiai" for use as a kiai, as well. I've always preferred "ha" (and "roy" for softer kiai, where there's no hard start or stop - more a practice technique than for common use).

I never learned it as a specific word or pronunciation. That was never its intended purpose. To help people learn how to use it I will tell them it literally means "expulsion of air". I know this isn't correct per the definition but it is for the purpose. I use the comparison of the sound we make when lifting something really heavy off the ground. More in the category of a grunt. It is using the deep, alveoli air from the lungs.

I actually prefer something that ends in a T because it gives a finished effect. A lot of the kids will let their "ha" turn into "haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa". Or they get the initial burst of air for half their kiyhap, but then the second half just trails off.

I think it's good when people develop their own kiyhap. But sometimes it helps to have a standardized sound so people know what's expected.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I never learned it as a specific word or pronunciation. That was never its intended purpose. To help people learn how to use it I will tell them it literally means "expulsion of air". I know this isn't correct per the definition but it is for the purpose. I use the comparison of the sound we make when lifting something really heavy off the ground. More in the category of a grunt. It is using the deep, alveoli air from the lungs.

The translation I learned was "spirit breath". I always thought that's what you had after too much whiskey.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I actually prefer something that ends in a T because it gives a finished effect. A lot of the kids will let their "ha" turn into "haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa". Or they get the initial burst of air for half their kiyhap, but then the second half just trails off.

I think it's good when people develop their own kiyhap. But sometimes it helps to have a standardized sound so people know what's expected.

When taking falls, you want to keep it open-ended, so air doesn't stay in. For rolls, you want to be able to compress the body, so the "HAAaaaa..." keeps the airway open so air can escape, rather than getting compressed and making the roll harder. When using it with a strike, I tend to close hard on the end of it (either with a silent "t", or just an abrupt closing of the airway), but I teach the open-ended version because it's more important in the falls and rolls.

 

[dvcochran]

The translation I learned was "spirit breath". I always thought that's what you had after too much whiskey.

Is that literal or figurative? Works either way.

 

[JR 137]

It makes sense to yell "ki hop." It's a good kihap.

If Koreans yelled “shout” when they were supposed to yell during an American activity, how would you react?

You’re doing the same thing if you’re yelling “kihap.” Just saying.

 

[JR 137]

I've seen Karate instructors teach "kiai" for use as a kiai, as well. I've always preferred "ha" (and "roy" for softer kiai, where there's no hard start or stop - more a practice technique than for common use).

I’ve told this story before, but it’s worth re-telling here...

At my first dojo we had a group of 5th and 4th kyu young adult students who were saying “kiai” when they were supposed to kiai. My teacher at the time was at the height of his split up and custody stuff with his ex, and he wasn’t doing well with her using their daughter as something to hold over his head. Needless to say he had a VERY short fuse.

So we’re warming up with kata, and these guys are yelling “kiai” when they’re supposed to kiai. He stops everyone and explains it’s like yelling “yell.” They immediately do it again. And you can see the look in his eyes while he explains it again. Then they do it again. It’s a habit for them, and it’s like trying not to laugh when someone’s yelling at you because you’re laughing.

He lines up like one of those Mas Oyama mass workouts, just standing in place and kiai’ing with every single technique. Kicks, blocks, punches, etc. For a solid 30 minutes straight. Then it was sparring time and it was basically brawling for the next half hour or so.

One of my most memorable classes. A group of us used to try to get each other to yell “kiai” during class, but no one had the balls to go through with it. To this day, whenever I hear someone say kiai, I chuckle inside.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If Koreans yelled “shout” when they were supposed to yell during an American activity, how would you react?

You’re doing the same thing if you’re yelling “kihap.” Just saying.

Well, if they were listening to Tears for Fears while training, it might make sense.

 

[dvcochran]

Great song! Love me some 80's music.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Aside from the linguistic meaning, the two-syllable, drawn out shout that I've seen some karate and TKD practitioners use (whether it's "Ki-aaiii!" or "Hi-yaaa!" or whatever) makes no sense to me from a functional combative perspective. Any given strike should only take a small fraction of a second after which you should be moving on to the next technique. A kiai which drags out longer than that (and I've seen people stretch it out for a full second or longer) will run over into the time you should be using for your next move or two or three and will not be helpful in executing them properly.

As far as I can tell, this extended shout may be useful for point fighting tournaments where you get to pose and call attention to "look at this great punch I just threw, that should be worth a point" or for kata competitions to add drama and impress the judges. Either way, it seems to often be associated with leaving an extended punch hanging out dramatically in a way you would never want to do in a real fight.

(I am aware of at least one koryu art where the practitioners practice shouting continually like some sort of maniac berserker. Presumably this is intended for psychological effect and differs in function from a normal kiai.)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Aside from the linguistic meaning, the two-syllable, drawn out shout that I've seen some karate and TKD practitioners use (whether it's "Ki-aaiii!" or "Hi-yaaa!" or whatever) makes no sense to me from a functional combative perspective. Any given strike should only take a small fraction of a second after which you should be moving on to the next technique. A kiai which drags out longer than that (and I've seen people stretch it out for a full second or longer) will run over into the time you should be using for your next move or two or three and will not be helpful in executing them properly.

As far as I can tell, this extended shout may be useful for point fighting tournaments where you get to pose and call attention to "look at this great punch I just threw, that should be worth a point" or for kata competitions to add drama and impress the judges. Either way, it seems to often be associated with leaving an extended punch hanging out dramatically in a way you would never want to do in a real fight.

(I am aware of at least one koryu art where the practitioners practice shouting continually like some sort of maniac berserker. Presumably this is intended for psychological effect and differs in function from a normal kiai.)

It worked well for Jean-Claude Van Damme, too.

 

[skribs]

Aside from the linguistic meaning, the two-syllable, drawn out shout that I've seen some karate and TKD practitioners use (whether it's "Ki-aaiii!" or "Hi-yaaa!" or whatever) makes no sense to me from a functional combative perspective. Any given strike should only take a small fraction of a second after which you should be moving on to the next technique. A kiai which drags out longer than that (and I've seen people stretch it out for a full second or longer) will run over into the time you should be using for your next move or two or three and will not be helpful in executing them properly.

As far as I can tell, this extended shout may be useful for point fighting tournaments where you get to pose and call attention to "look at this great punch I just threw, that should be worth a point" or for kata competitions to add drama and impress the judges. Either way, it seems to often be associated with leaving an extended punch hanging out dramatically in a way you would never want to do in a real fight.

(I am aware of at least one koryu art where the practitioners practice shouting continually like some sort of maniac berserker. Presumably this is intended for psychological effect and differs in function from a normal kiai.)

The forms in Taekwondo are quite often a snapshot of the technique. The pacing is to pause after each technique or combo in order to show exactly what the technique should be.

We generally use 1-syllable kiyhaps at my school, but that syllable is drawn out in forms or in our demonstration team.

 

[Flying Crane]

Aside from the linguistic meaning, the two-syllable, drawn out shout that I've seen some karate and TKD practitioners use (whether it's "Ki-aaiii!" or "Hi-yaaa!" or whatever) makes no sense to me from a functional combative perspective. Any given strike should only take a small fraction of a second after which you should be moving on to the next technique. A kiai which drags out longer than that (and I've seen people stretch it out for a full second or longer) will run over into the time you should be using for your next move or two or three and will not be helpful in executing them properly.

As far as I can tell, this extended shout may be useful for point fighting tournaments where you get to pose and call attention to "look at this great punch I just threw, that should be worth a point" or for kata competitions to add drama and impress the judges. Either way, it seems to often be associated with leaving an extended punch hanging out dramatically in a way you would never want to do in a real fight.

(I am aware of at least one koryu art where the practitioners practice shouting continually like some sort of maniac berserker. Presumably this is intended for psychological effect and differs in function from a normal kiai.)

Yeah, I’ve seen especially egregious examples in the performance-focused systems, XMA and such. Some of those guys hoot like howler monkeys, dragging it on for several seconds. And they just do it throughout the entire performance.

I am not a fan.

 

[gorilla2]

KKW forms 1 per belt rank are fine!

 

[skribs]

So my original post was inaccurate. In addition to the 9 unarmed forms, I also have a sword form (we do kumdo in our black belt classes) and a double-nunchaku form. The nunchaku one was easy for me. The sword form I just had this look of "wtf" while my Master was demonstrating it. I'll get it, but not yet!

 

[Buka]

Aside from the linguistic meaning, the two-syllable, drawn out shout that I've seen some karate and TKD practitioners use (whether it's "Ki-aaiii!" or "Hi-yaaa!" or whatever) makes no sense to me from a functional combative perspective. Any given strike should only take a small fraction of a second after which you should be moving on to the next technique. A kiai which drags out longer than that (and I've seen people stretch it out for a full second or longer) will run over into the time you should be using for your next move or two or three and will not be helpful in executing them properly.

As far as I can tell, this extended shout may be useful for point fighting tournaments where you get to pose and call attention to "look at this great punch I just threw, that should be worth a point" or for kata competitions to add drama and impress the judges. Either way, it seems to often be associated with leaving an extended punch hanging out dramatically in a way you would never want to do in a real fight.

(I am aware of at least one koryu art where the practitioners practice shouting continually like some sort of maniac berserker. Presumably this is intended for psychological effect and differs in function from a normal kiai.)

Made me laugh in a nostalgic way, that did.

Yes, that exaggerated Kiai when a point was scored was big in tournaments back in the day. But where we were, it wasn't usually accompanied with the extended punch hanging, but rather with a raised fist overhead - I imagine the practitioner wanted the ref to see his deadly karate punch that scored said point.

But we were the ugly Americans. And we had "The Karate Dictionary" at our disposal. We looked up what that raised fist and accompanying long Kiai actually meant.

Translated, it meant "Bet you can't make me face plant." We always acted accordingly.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Aside from the linguistic meaning, the two-syllable, drawn out shout that I've seen some karate and TKD practitioners use (whether it's "Ki-aaiii!" or "Hi-yaaa!" or whatever) makes no sense to me from a functional combative perspective. Any given strike should only take a small fraction of a second after which you should be moving on to the next technique. A kiai which drags out longer than that (and I've seen people stretch it out for a full second or longer) will run over into the time you should be using for your next move or two or three and will not be helpful in executing them properly.

As far as I can tell, this extended shout may be useful for point fighting tournaments where you get to pose and call attention to "look at this great punch I just threw, that should be worth a point" or for kata competitions to add drama and impress the judges. Either way, it seems to often be associated with leaving an extended punch hanging out dramatically in a way you would never want to do in a real fight.

(I am aware of at least one koryu art where the practitioners practice shouting continually like some sort of maniac berserker. Presumably this is intended for psychological effect and differs in function from a normal kiai.)

Reminded me aof a very old joke, I will give the reader digest versoin
Guy gets beat up
Guy decides to study karate
Guy finally gets black belt
Guy decides to go show off his skill
Guy gets see a truck cut off another car
Guy chases truck down and finally truck pulls over
Guy jumps out of his car (wearing his Gi of course) and yells HI-YAAAAA!!!!!
Truck drive jumps out and yells "MONKEY WRENCH!!!!"

 

[Dirty Dog]

Reminded me aof a very old joke, I will give the reader digest versoin
Guy gets beat up
Guy decides to study karate
Guy finally gets black belt
Guy decides to go show off his skill
Guy gets see a truck cut off another car
Guy chases truck down and finally truck pulls over
Guy jumps out of his car (wearing his Gi of course) and yells HI-YAAAAA!!!!!
Truck drive jumps out and yells "MONKEY WRENCH!!!!"

 

[skribs]

Reminded me aof a very old joke, I will give the reader digest versoin
Guy gets beat up
Guy decides to study karate
Guy finally gets black belt
Guy decides to go show off his skill
Guy gets see a truck cut off another car
Guy chases truck down and finally truck pulls over
Guy jumps out of his car (wearing his Gi of course) and yells HI-YAAAAA!!!!!
Truck drive jumps out and yells "MONKEY WRENCH!!!!"

A brand-new soldier goes to war. The quartermaster gives him a stick and a carrot.
"What is this? I need a gun and a knife!"
"That's a magic gun and magic knife. You point the stick and say 'Bangety-Bang-Bang-Bang' to shoot, and you use the carrot and say 'Stabbety-Stab-Stab-Stab' to use the knife."
The soldier doesn't believe it, but sure enough when he points the stick at the enemy and yells "BANGETY-BANG-BANG-BANG" the enemy falls over dead. He takes out several more, clearing a path towards his objective. The enemy are closer, so he pokes them with the carrot and yells "STABBETY-STAB-STAB-STAB" and they too, fall over dead.
Near his objective, the soldier spots one last enemy. He points his stick and yells "BANGETY BANG BANG BANG" and nothing happens. The enemy turns towards him and comes closer. When he's in range, "STABBETY STAB STAB STAB!" Still no effect.
The enemy bumps into the soldier, and he falls over, dying. The last thing he heard was the enemy saying "TANKETY TANK TANK TANK."

 

[skribs]

KKW forms 1 per belt rank are fine!

We average about 2 per belt rank. The bunch I have to learn is mostly to catch up on additions to the curriculum.

 

[dvcochran]

We average about 2 per belt rank. The bunch I have to learn is mostly to catch up on additions to the curriculum.

All KKW forms?