"Testing" your training is the stupidest thing ever!

[The Last Legionary]

I read over and over and over how you need to test your training. To make sure it works of course. So you can drop all that old fashioned useless crap. So you can know if your instructor is real or full of ****.

Problem is, you set limits, you set controls, you determine the environment, and you make it as safe as possible, you pull your strikes, your opponents pull their strikes, you fake reactions. In the end, you're doing nothing more than play acting, and still don't know if your **** works or not.

I've never heard of a cop asking his buddy to empty a clip into his body armor, or a soldier intentionally running his humvee over a mine field to test the reinforcement. Who in their right mind would step out on to the street and pick a fight with a couple of hoods to see if they can handle it?

Testing is a joke. It works or not, and you go home on foot or in a bag.

Want a real test? Stop pulling punches, faking reactions and go at it full tilt, 100%. Risk a ko, risk some broken bones or spitting chicklets, and bleed a bit. Anything else is play acting.

Disagree? Fire away baby!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Been talking to the guys who think the UFC is a real fight again? lol.

 

[K-man]

Testing is a joke. It works or not, and you go home on foot or in a bag.

Want a real test? Stop pulling punches, faking reactions and go at it full tilt, 100%. Risk a ko, risk some broken bones or spitting chicklets, and bleed a bit. Anything else is play acting.

Disagree? Fire away baby!

Depends whether you want to destroy the entire martial arts movement or not. Most people are not going to risk their lives in training, for that is what they would be doing in full on martial combat, just to see if their techniques would work. All children and most women would be automatically excluded from training. Then you have the problem of people having to take time off work to recover and the massive ongoing problem of acquired brain injury.
Not even the SAS etc take their training to that level.
Fantastic idea though.

Can't wait to see it in practice!! :asian:

 

[The Last Legionary]

I'd love to see the idiots who go on and on about how they have to test their crap really do it. It might clean up the human gene pool a bit.

 

[Makalakumu]

Most of us, unless you are heading to a warzone or policework or some kind of security profession, are just LARPing to one degree or another. We hope that the stuff works, but really don't know unless the **** hits the fan. If that happened and you lived, guess what? Your **** worked.

 

[The Last Legionary]

Even the guys in the war zones are "larping" as you say, until they actually get into it, and see if what they learned works. I'd bet any sane one of them would rather not test it out, and would rather remain completely unaware of if it works at all, safe and sound at home. Any gym rat who thinks dancing with his buddy is the same is simply deluded.

 

[Carol]

You gotta wear this on duty. No I didn't test it. What, you don't trust me? Stop being so disrespectful. I'm a grandmaster you know, and if you publicly disagree with me, that's damn rude. You think I'd give this to you if I didn't think it worked?

Oh and by the way, your last ACH payment bounced, Better pay up quick with a $50 late fee or I'll report you as delinquent to all the credit bureaus. You DID read and understand all that before you signed the contract, your siganture says so.

 

[Archangel M]

I believe that "pressure testing" is more about testing yourself than it is your training.

Can you ever really "See" what combat is like without actually being in combat? No. But you can (and if that's your goal probably SHOULD) get as close to it as realistically possible.

 

[MJS]

If we read about the old days, the guys who did Kajukenbo, went out and fought. It was a test of not only themselves, but also of the art. Fastforward to today...go out and start a fight in a bar and chances are you'll end up getting arrested.

As for the "Larping" comments that some people use...technically, they larp too, due to the fact that when they're grappling, they're not breaking limbs or choking people out on a regular basis. They, like 99% of the other martial arts groups, go so far. They train their techs. and stop when the person taps, like I would do a tech. which involves a break or dislocation to the arm. Of course, how can you really test that?

LEOs and Military groups go out and run scenario drills all the time. Are they larping as well? Yet, its those same drills that they train over and over and over, that they use in real time. They're putting themselves in a stressfull environment/situation, and testing how they react under pressure. As Arch said, and I agree with....you get as close as realistically possible.

 

[Archangel M]

I think we are misapplying the LARP term.

We all know that the REAL LARP term is about dressing up as a character you really are NOT and going out and playing a game. In our usage we are applying it to training simulations which isnt the same as putting on a "role".

IMO, "LARP'ing" is when you are pretending to be something. A Knight, a Shaolin Monk, Ninja, Navy SEAL (when you never served a day). Actually BEING a SEAL but never having been in combat isnt "LARP'ing", you are a SEAL, not some 30-something with all the gear, shooting schools and SEAL T-Shirts who goes to work as a computer programmer every day.

 

[Flying Crane]

what the hell is LARP?

 

[Flying Crane]

I've never heard of a cop asking his buddy to empty a clip into his body armor, or a soldier intentionally running his humvee over a mine field to test the reinforcement.

well, just to point out, I'm sure the manufacturers of body armor do fire rounds into the armor to test its limits. They just don't do it with a live body under it.

Likewise with the humvee. I'm sure they've been robotically driven over plenty of mines, to see how much they can withstand.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

what the hell is LARP?

Live Action Role Playing. It's often used by the "gotta test your stuff" crowd as a shot at traditional martial artists who wear the "pajama's" while training.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

well, just to point out, I'm sure the manufacturers of body armor do fire rounds into the armor to test its limits. They just don't do it with a live body under it.

Likewise with the humvee. I'm sure they've been robotically driven over plenty of mines, to see how much they can withstand.

That's normal testing which is a good thing. It's the "I gotta make sure this works" mentality that gets people hurt or killed. I don't need to toss you a hunk of wood and tell you to swing at me to know if I can block you. If I can't, the damage is bad, and if I can moot point. I tried things out when I was training, half speed, low impact to see how I was doing, but I never confused controlled safe testing with 'street ready'.

 

[Archangel M]

That's normal testing which is a good thing. It's the "I gotta make sure this works" mentality that gets people hurt or killed. I don't need to toss you a hunk of wood and tell you to swing at me to know if I can block you. If I can't, the damage is bad, and if I can moot point. I tried things out when I was training, half speed, low impact to see how I was doing, but I never confused controlled safe testing with 'street ready'.

Yes. But you CAN use a foam training stick and go "all out".

High speed and hard (but safe) impact can make a world of difference in how your technique will really work. Slow and controlled isn't how a real attack is going to come at you.

Not suggesting doing it all the time, or in an uncontrolled manner, but if knowing is important to you don't fool yourself. Some people don't really care if it will "work on the street" and thats fine too. Everybody does stuff for different purposes.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Yes, but I 'know' it's safe and I know my partner will stop if I drop. Street fights don't work that way from what I've heard. Then again, I haven't been in a real fight in 20 years, and don't want to break my track record of fight avoidance any time soon.

 

[Archangel M]

Yes, but I 'know' it's safe and I know my partner will stop if I drop. Street fights don't work that way from what I've heard. Then again, I haven't been in a real fight in 20 years, and don't want to break my track record of fight avoidance any time soon.

Is the issue "realistic training" or getting into a "real fight"?

They are not the same thing when referring to "testing your training" IMO. Just because you can't simulate the "real thing" exactly doesn't make RBSD training invalid or ineffective.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

My take on it's always been practice in a safe manner and hope you never have to try it for real. It's the guys who would brag that their stuffs the same as being in a real fight that would irk me.

I don't know if I'm up to snuff, and don't want to find out. That's my take on it all though, and haven't practiced or trained since 05.

 

[Makalakumu]

I think we are misapplying the LARP term.

We all know that the REAL LARP term is about dressing up as a character you really are NOT and going out and playing a game. In our usage we are applying it to training simulations which isnt the same as putting on a "role".

IMO, "LARP'ing" is when you are pretending to be something. A Knight, a Shaolin Monk, Ninja, Navy SEAL (when you never served a day). Actually BEING a SEAL but never having been in combat isnt "LARP'ing", you are a SEAL, not some 30-something with all the gear, shooting schools and SEAL T-Shirts who goes to work as a computer programmer every day.

I see your point, however, I still maintain that all training is LARPing to an degree. It's all simulated unless you plan on getting down and dirty and doing it for real. I'm okay with this because it suits my purposes as a martial artist. If I was a LEO or a Soldier, I would sure as hell want someone who has applied the stuff in the field teaching me...and I know enough to understand that training and real experience are often very different.

Anyway, like I said above, when you survive a violent encounter, maybe you find out that all the LARPing works. Maybe you find out that Foot Jutsu works. You never know until it happens, so LARP away and, if possible, LARP with guys who have experience doing what you want to be able to do.

 

[Draven]

I tend to agree with maunakumu, when I was in the military used static targets in shoot houses. Sometimes they were stationary targets and sometimes they were pop-ups, no one got killed and the targets don't shoot back. More so, when we going force on force we used Miles gear and basically "played laser tag." Did it help us for the real thing, you bet it did. Course it was just LARPing & even if I did it for real I still don't know it will work next time. There is no way to know what you train in will work everytime. There are far too many factors to consider to say getting into a "real fight" will prove anything.

That said, the idea of "pressure testing" is a good idea but its an idea I believe must be in context. Does pressure testing in a cage have anything to do with pressure testing a criminal assault? Nope & neiter does pressure test for self-defense against a criminal assault prove anything about the ring.