Testing students for BB. Do you...?

[IcemanSK]

For the instructors: Do you test your own students for black belt, or do you bring in an outside instructor to test them? What are the pros & cons of each? If you bring in an outside instructor, how nervous are you when your students test? (I guess that question still applies if you do it yourself).

For students: What has your experience been? Would you rather test in front of your instrutor, or an outside instructor that perhaps you don't know?

 

[Kacey]

For the instructors: Do you test your own students for black belt, or do you bring in an outside instructor to test them?

We bring in an outside instructor to test them, although the students' instructor is also present. We also do this for color belt testings.

What are the pros & cons of each?

There are issues of integrity either way, but greater, I think, when you test your own students. As an instructor, it is easier to say "well, I know s/he can perform "x" properly because I've seen it in class" about your own students than others' students. The purpose of testing, IMHO, is to deliberately create a stressful situation to see how students perform; black belt testings should be correspondingly more stressful. Testing for someone other than your own instructor increases the level of stress in some ways and reduces it in others - having both instructors present maximizes the stress of testing for another instructor, especially as one's own instructor must sign off on the promotion along with the testing instructor.

If you bring in an outside instructor, how nervous are you when your students test? (I guess that question still applies if you do it yourself).

More nervous, in many ways, than if I am testing myself; I have less ultimate control over the actions of others than my own, and it seems like my students make mistakes at testing that I never see in class. In addition, when my students test, in many ways I am testing - my instruction, rather than my own performance, is being put to the test every time I allow a student to test; allowing a student to test who is not ready reflects poorly on me as an instructor, as does allowing a student to test who is ready but does not perform (for whatever reason) at testing.

For students: What has your experience been?

I have never tested for my instructor, although he has been present at all of my testings, and has signed all of my certificates. I know that there are people who test their own students, but the only time I experienced it myself I was not happy with it, and neither were my students (I was told to test my own students because there wasn't a testing instructor available - but in reality, my class was too small, and there wasn't a testing instructor willing to show up for the minimal fee s/he would get, as the fee was based on the number of students testing).

Would you rather test in front of your instrutor, or an outside instructor that perhaps you don't know?

Well, as I said, we test for another instructor, but with our own instructor present as well - sometimes the testing instructor is someone you know, and sometimes it's not. Knowing the testing instructor can raise the bar, because if it's someone you've trained with, you want to be sure that you perform well; not knowing the testing instructor and what s/he expects raises the bar as well, because you don't know what to expect. There's something to be said for each way.

 

[tkd_Jaz]

In our gym, We have two stations and there are certain Master Instructors sitting and testing you that does include my instructor though. My test was the best experience of my life. I pushed myself so hard and had fun with it. I mean it was this big challange that I trained so hard. I came in confiedent and didn't let anyone stop me from doing awesome.

 

[granfire]

Once again I am feeling spoiled.

We test Black Belts along with the color belts. Above green we test with another school and their instructors. The only thing more stressful for BBs is that you get 2 chances to stick your form and you spar three 2 minute rounds. Of course boardbreaking (rebreakables, urgh)

Once you reach 3rd degree (I think, not there yet for a while) to test for 4th you have to do so at a national tournament in front of all the Big Wigs....now THAT is scary!!!

 

[searcher]

I have done it both ways and I have been through it both ways. The advantage of having outside instructors do it is that they have fresh eyes and they are impartial. The advantage of having you test your students is that, IMO, it means more.

 

[Miles]

I test my own students, both gueps and black belts. But the black belts test on their own date, I don't mix guep and BB tests.

Miles

 

[Bret Hinds]

We have our kwanjang Nim ,does all of our testing of our students, It keeps us in good standing with him and the other schools that our International Martial Arts Federation belong to. This is for all ranks.All the best in the arts

 

[wade]

I test my own students since I am one of the few black belts certified to test in my state "Oregon" through the USAT and the Kukkiwon. Not only do I test my own students but I also run tests for a few other schools who do not have KKW certified Black Belts of high enough rank to do it. I, on the other hand have to test elsewhere because of the "rank" issue. this kind of sucks if you know what I mean.

 

[YoungMan]

We do not bring in outside judges for testing, but students cannot be judged by their Instructor. All our judges are members of the organization, but judges are brought in from outside a particular class to judge.
I can judge any students except for my own, and I am not allowed to be in the room while judges are deliberating.
It comes down to integrity. Having other Instructors judge my students ensures that their scores are unbiased and fair.

 

[IcemanSK]

Back in my colored belt days, my Sa Bum always brought in outside instructors to test us. I never thought it was odd or got nervous about that because we were rarely introduced to them or told anything about these folks. So they had no "reputation" as far as we knew.

Due to distance between our school & the only other school in my organization in my state (210 miles) we test our own students in the gup ranks. At BB ranks, we send a video of the candidate to our GM for his evaluation & critique. He always gives a grade & that is the grade they receive. I often travel the distance to help out with tapings & the northern master will make the trip to us when it's time for my students.

I agree with those who pointed out the difficulty with the appearance of favoritism or the feeling that your student had an "off day" or some such thing. At another school years ago, our instructors tested the BB's & they were prone to be harsh or easy depending on whether the candidate was having a "good day" or not. It was too arbitrary.

I think the "ideal" is to bring in an outside instructor if it's possible.

 

[Balrog]

We try to bring in another instructor as much as possible. It gives a fresh perspective to the students.

 

[terryl965]

Well since I'm an Independent with a KKW 4th I do my own and if the students wants this KKW certificate I can get it for them. My problem is always the money these Master abd GM wants to be sitting on your board of testers. Around here they ask for $250.00-$500.00 and that expense is too much for my students. When a KKW 1st only cost $90.00 and I just cannot justify the added cost. I can see a $100.00 but not $500.00. I guess I sell myself real cheap.

 

[IcemanSK]

Well since I'm an Independent with a KKW 4th I do my own and if the students wants this KKW certificate I can get it for them. My problem is always the money these Master abd GM wants to be sitting on your board of testers. Around here they ask for $250.00-$500.00 and that expense is too much for my students. When a KKW 1st only cost $90.00 and I just cannot justify the added cost. I can see a $100.00 but not $500.00. I guess I sell myself real cheap.

That is a tough spot to be in, Terry. And probably quite common. Too bad Wade &/or Miles don't live closer.

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

Well since I'm an Independent with a KKW 4th I do my own and if the students wants this KKW certificate I can get it for them. My problem is always the money these Master abd GM wants to be sitting on your board of testers. Around here they ask for $250.00-$500.00 and that expense is too much for my students. When a KKW 1st only cost $90.00 and I just cannot justify the added cost. I can see a $100.00 but not $500.00. I guess I sell myself real cheap.

Thanks for the info Terry. I should have been aware of the additional costs involved to you as a Saubumnim.

Me, I'm just a recreational taekwondist, I've been training for a while now. I just earned my 3rd dan KKW black. I just wanted to train in TKD to keep in shape and to scrap to get out some aggression from work and life. I really don't have any intention of being a master instructor and opening up my own dojang. Although I do help out teach my Saubumnim's students whenever I'm at his dojang.

Taekwondo still is my passion, it always will be at this point no matter what. It's a family thing. That said, IMHO, I think it's still good to have outside masters at your promotion tests only because its really a test of you as an an instructor and how well you've prepared your students. :asian:

 

[terryl965]

Cali, do not get me wrong here would love to have people on a board testing my future BB, but at the same time I believe some of these Masters and GM really need a reality check when it comes to cost of acouple of hours of time.

 

[TaeKwonDoKevin]

For the instructors: Do you test your own students for black belt, or do you bring in an outside instructor to test them? What are the pros & cons of each? If you bring in an outside instructor, how nervous are you when your students test? (I guess that question still applies if you do it yourself).

For students: What has your experience been? Would you rather test in front of your instrutor, or an outside instructor that perhaps you don't know?

I haven't tested any students for BlackBelt in a long time.......I just started teaching again.
I always have at least 3 other Black Belts helping test a BlackBelt candidate. One of the BlackBelts on the panel must be at least 2 degrees higher than the rank my students are testing for.
I think this a good idea, it is good for the students, and keeps the instructor in tune with reality.
Pros....New BlackBelts on the panel shows your students you are not isolated from the TaeKwonDo world.
Cons...... I don't know of any.
-Kevin

 

[Kwan Jang]

For the underbelts, we test our own. Either myself or one of my 3rd or 4th dan students will test them(testing board made up of 3rd dan and up from our own school). For black belts we have a testing board of master instructors, including our GM who comes out from California. I will also fly out to be part of the testing boards for the other schools in our association. Luckily, there will be "Hub schools" that we'll do the testing for a region.

Even though it is expensive to do it this way, IMO it adds great value to the students and it helps to make it one of the most memorable and empowering moments of their lives. Like Wade mentioned, in a way it's a challenge to have to travel for master-level tests for myself. I have to fly from Nashville to San Jose, Ca. for a week, but the comraderie and the experience is worth the trouble and expense, for me at least. Actually, for our assn, whenever we have a mastery test (every three years) all masters are required to go through it whether we are testing for rank or not. This summer I will be going through it and "giving value" even though I am not due to test for 7th dan until the next tesing cycle.

 

[IcemanSK]

For the underbelts, we test our own. Either myself or one of my 3rd or 4th dan students will test them(testing board made up of 3rd dan and up from our own school). For black belts we have a testing board of master instructors, including our GM who comes out from California. I will also fly out to be part of the testing boards for the other schools in our association. Luckily, there will be "Hub schools" that we'll do the testing for a region.

Even though it is expensive to do it this way, IMO it adds great value to the students and it helps to make it one of the most memorable and empowering moments of their lives. Like Wade mentioned, in a way it's a challenge to have to travel for master-level tests for myself. I have to fly from Nashville to San Jose, Ca. for a week, but the comraderie and the experience is worth the trouble and expense, for me at least. Actually, for our assn, whenever we have a mastery test (every three years) all masters are required to go through it whether we are testing for rank or not. This summer I will be going through it and "giving value" even though I am not due to test for 7th dan until the next tesing cycle.

The idea of going through the test anyway is intriguing to me. It certainly ensures that instructor are keeping up with their material & fitness.