Teen dies trying to save cats from fire

[fireman00]

I've been a firefighter for 14 years and have had the same type of issues; folks think that they'll be able to run back in an find their pet(s) and get them out. A.) a pet will be VERY scared and will most likely find a place to hide - where you will most likely NOT be able to find them through the dense smoke. B.) If you are able to find the pet they will most likely be so scared that they will bite/ scratch/ fight you c.) when you go back in to search for your pets you have just endanged the lives all the first responders that have been dispatched to your house as they will ikely now have to rescue/ recover you. d.) a fire will double in size every 3 to 4 minutes so a single room fire can VERY quickly consume an entire floor in less then 10 minutes. The resulting smoke and heat will overcome anyone in this environment that does not have on full protective turn out gear and breathing apparatus. e.) I'm a huge animal lover and I would certainly try to save my 2 dogs and I would mourn for weeks/ months if they were to die. I'd rather mourn then die myself or worse yet have someone else get hurt or die while trying to find me.

 

[jdinca]

That's your choice, and you're welcome to it - but it's also my choice to respond otherwise. Yes, if there are firefighters there, I will let them go in after my dog, if they deem it unsafe for me to do so - but if they're not, he's my dog, and he's my responsibility. I took him into my home and made myself responsible for his safety and well-being - and not just when it was convenient for me, or safe, or cheap - just as surely as if he were a person, and in some ways, more than if he were a person, because unlike most people, he will never be self-supporting. But please don't tell me it's stupid for me to take my responsibility seriously because you disagree with my priorities.

I agree, my dog is my responsibility and I would not abandon him. If others don't feel that way that is fine with me.

Would your family be better off if they lost a pet, or if they lost you in the rescue attempt? Or, sometimes even worse, had you around but scarred and disabled for life because of massive burn injuries. If it's just you and your pets, then that decision to go or not is an easier one to make.

I find it somewhat interesting that in martial arts, we try and control our emotions and react to situations logically, but when a loved one (be they family, or pet) comes into question, logic can go out the window. Then again, we are all human after all.

Let's take this one step farther. You get the kids out but your wife is still inside. What is the priority, being there for your children, or possibly losing your own life in a rescue attempt and depriving the children of both parents?

Again, I'm making no judgement in regards to your own personal decision, I'm actually quite fascinated by the responses and am looking to gain further insight into the way people think, especially under extreme situations.

 

[MA-Caver]

Again, I'm making no judgement in regards to your own personal decision, I'm actually quite fascinated by the responses and am looking to gain further insight into the way people think, especially under extreme situations.

I've learned that no-one person, no matter how well trained, has fore-knowledge of exactly what they will do in any given situation.

 

[jks9199]

That's your choice, and you're welcome to it - but it's also my choice to respond otherwise. Yes, if there are firefighters there, I will let them go in after my dog, if they deem it unsafe for me to do so - but if they're not, he's my dog, and he's my responsibility. I took him into my home and made myself responsible for his safety and well-being - and not just when it was convenient for me, or safe, or cheap - just as surely as if he were a person, and in some ways, more than if he were a person, because unlike most people, he will never be self-supporting. But please don't tell me it's stupid for me to take my responsibility seriously because you disagree with my priorities.

You're welcome to make your own choices -- but my fundamental priority is the preservation of HUMAN life. If I'm at a fire scene, and someone other than a firefighter is attempting to enter the fire, my job is to stop them.

Someone else also mentioned firefighters who have rescued animals. That's their choice to do so; most of them that I know who have pulled animals out of a fire did so in the course of fighting the fire, not as a specific effort aimed at saving an animal. That's a very different situation; they weren't looking for the animal, but they happened to find it.

Again -- I'm in no way intending to devalue the life of a companion animal, except in comparison to human life. Pets are parts of families; reasonable efforts to facilitate their escape or even get them out are fine. But the reasonableness of the efforts are directly and inversely related to the risks to human life.

And tell me... does your wife know that you'd "sit on her and cuff her" if she attempted to save her dog against your say-so? The fact that you would state it in such terms leads me to suggest you think that her opinion may differ from your own. Perhaps you should sit down with her and discuss it... before, God forbid, it comes to that point.

Yes, she does. In fact, having discussed this issue on more than one occasion (often in response to an article similar to the one that started this whole mess), she'd expect me to do so if she lacked the presence of mind to stay out of the fire herself.

 

[thepanjr]

It makes me sad that kid was brave to do that. That kid must have had a quite a bond with his cat and his aunt. I even wonder if i could do that. I hope that person, good luck in heaven or wherever he is.

 

[jks9199]

I've been a firefighter for 14 years and have had the same type of issues; folks think that they'll be able to run back in an find their pet(s) and get them out. A.) a pet will be VERY scared and will most likely find a place to hide - where you will most likely NOT be able to find them through the dense smoke. B.) If you are able to find the pet they will most likely be so scared that they will bite/ scratch/ fight you c.) when you go back in to search for your pets you have just endanged the lives all the first responders that have been dispatched to your house as they will ikely now have to rescue/ recover you. d.) a fire will double in size every 3 to 4 minutes so a single room fire can VERY quickly consume an entire floor in less then 10 minutes. The resulting smoke and heat will overcome anyone in this environment that does not have on full protective turn out gear and breathing apparatus. e.) I'm a huge animal lover and I would certainly try to save my 2 dogs and I would mourn for weeks/ months if they were to die. I'd rather mourn then die myself or worse yet have someone else get hurt or die while trying to find me.

There are two points that are barely mentioned here that I'd like to elaborate on. First, most homes today have many items (including computers used to post on message boards) that contain materials that emit poisonous gases during a fire. And that's apart from the byproducts of the fire itself. Without a good oxygen source, you're simply not likely to last very long. And you now become a burden to be rescued.

Second, smoke fills a house incredibly quickly, to a degree that you really have to see to believe. It makes it very difficult to navigate, see or do anything. In the fire I described, when I arrived, the fire was confined to the basement. The entire house was already filled with smoke that was almost like looking at a solid wall. Standing at the open front door, I could only barely see a few feet into the house. "But it's your house, and you know it" someone will probably argue in response. Most people have stubbed their toe on something in their own home moving around in the dark (and sometimes in the daylight!). And that's when they're relatively calm! If you really think you might have a chance to navigate your house well if it's filled with smoke... Try wearing a blindfold, and moving through it quickly. (Wear shoes... Toes are sensitive and it hurts like hell when you run into a door jamb, chair or other object.)

The bottom line is simple. I personally and professionally place HUMAN life and it's preservation above that of an animal, and I am required to strive to preserve human life, which includes using necessary force to prevent someone from going into a fire. Do all you can on your way out to get your animals out. I don't even have a problem with advising the firefighters of the animals -- and in fact, encourage it! They might be able to save the animal, but, more importantly, they won't be coming around a corner completely unprepared to face a terrified Rottweiler!

 

[jks9199]

OOPS... post duplicated itself...

 

[jdinca]

Someone else also mentioned firefighters who have rescued animals. That's their choice to do so; most of them that I know who have pulled animals out of a fire did so in the course of fighting the fire, not as a specific effort aimed at saving an animal. That's a very different situation; they weren't looking for the animal, but they happened to find it.

That was me and I should have clarified. When I mentioned searching for pets it's more like we know the pet is in there and we keep an eye out while we try and put the fire out. Once we get to the salvage and overhaul stage, we may put a little more effort into it.

 

[jdinca]

There are two points that are barely mentioned here that I'd like to elaborate on. First, most homes today have many items (including computers used to post on message boards) that contain materials that emit poisonous gases during a fire. And that's apart from the byproducts of the fire itself. Without a good oxygen source, you're simply not likely to last very long. And you now become a burden to be rescued.

Second, smoke fills a house incredibly quickly, to a degree that you really have to see to believe. It makes it very difficult to navigate, see or do anything. In the fire I described, when I arrived, the fire was confined to the basement. The entire house was already filled with smoke that was almost like looking at a solid wall. Standing at the open front door, I could only barely see a few feet into the house. "But it's your house, and you know it" someone will probably argue in response. Most people have stubbed their toe on something in their own home moving around in the dark (and sometimes in the daylight!). And that's when they're relatively calm! If you really think you might have a chance to navigate your house well if it's filled with smoke... Try wearing a blindfold, and moving through it quickly. (Wear shoes... Toes are sensitive and it hurts like hell when you run into a door jamb, chair or other object.)

The bottom line is simple. I personally and professionally place HUMAN life and it's preservation above that of an animal, and I am required to strive to preserve human life, which includes using necessary force to prevent someone from going into a fire. Do all you can on your way out to get your animals out. I don't even have a problem with advising the firefighters of the animals -- and in fact, encourage it! They might be able to save the animal, but, more importantly, they won't be coming around a corner completely unprepared to face a terrified Rottweiler!

You are correct. The vast majority of people that die in fires are dead before the heat ever gets to them. It's the byproducts of combustion that do it, especially in our plastic filled lives. In addition, the heat layer is quite dramatic in a structure fire. While you may be able to crawl out, if you stand up, you can be done. One lungfull of superheated air sears the airway and causes massive vasodilation (blood pressure plummets).

 

[Just4Kicks]

That's your choice, and you're welcome to it - but it's also my choice to respond otherwise. Yes, if there are firefighters there, I will let them go in after my dog, if they deem it unsafe for me to do so - but if they're not, he's my dog, and he's my responsibility. I took him into my home and made myself responsible for his safety and well-being - and not just when it was convenient for me, or safe, or cheap - just as surely as if he were a person, and in some ways, more than if he were a person, because unlike most people, he will never be self-supporting. But please don't tell me it's stupid for me to take my responsibility seriously because you disagree with my priorities.

And tell me... does your wife know that you'd "sit on her and cuff her" if she attempted to save her dog against your say-so? The fact that you would state it in such terms leads me to suggest you think that her opinion may differ from your own. Perhaps you should sit down with her and discuss it... before, God forbid, it comes to that point.

*claps* That was well put. I totally agree. I love my dog and I would feel terrible if she died and I could have stoped it. Same with my family too, I hope that this will never happen to us.