Steve
Mostly Harmless
Thanks for clarifying that. I agree.
Teaching assertiveness from a young age.
- Thread starter TenHands
- Start date
AIKIKENJITSU
Green Belt
I've taught for fifty years and still enjoy it. The main reason I enjoy what I do is because 48 years ago I stopped teaching kids. I now have a private studio at home where I teach adults up to black belt and beyond.
Kids are a lot of trouble and you're always chasing them whatever. Then there's the crying and parents staring at you because they think you have injured your child in some way. It's so soothing to teach adults. But I had an occupation, so I could teach at home and not worry about money.
Good luck!
Sifu
Puyallup, WA
I used to teach kids but pretty much have had my fill, at least for teaching voluntary unpaid.
I think that teaching self defense needs to include the laws of the land.
I grew up training, and had a kind of opposite experience to that of the OP's story.
I started American Kenpo when i was 11, and was trained by 1st generation GM Ed Parker Snr students, as well as attending quiet a few GM Parker seminars.
I was taught from a fairly early age the Kenpo way of fighting. This is ironic, as I live on a small island in the UK, that has low population and low violent crime, especially low knife and firearm related crimes.
The laws in the UK are also completely different to the US. In the US, by law you have some right to defend your self under various circumstances and if someone breaks into your house, you have the right to even shoot them dead.
In the UK, the laws with regards to self defense are completely different, and in the island that i live,
the laws are even stricter or should I say more conservative.
I have over the years had a chat with the local police to see what I am allowed to do with regards to defending myself using martial arts.
During one period, i was being stalked by a group or small gang of local petty criminals, who were stalking me with clear bad intentions.
I asked them what I was allowed to do, if i was attacked by several of these petty criminal idiots, some who were bigger than me.
They basically told me that I could do nothing and I was best to call them on my mobile and they would send someone out to deal with the attack. Great advice! In my experience, if you call the police, the police rarely send someone out.
So. basically, if you take the police's advice, if I were not to defend myself, I potentially could get kicked to death by a gang of petty criminal nasty people.
As it happened, I managed to avoid the people by being street wise and being clever about the routes and areas that I travelled into. Staying in areas that were populated with witnesses, and staying in areas that had CCTV coverage.
In case an incident occured, there would be a high chance of any attack being caught on film, which could be used to prove your innocence in court.
As it happened, I was attacked during one incident during this period. The attacker attacked me literally a week after I had lost my older brother to a drug overdose and I was suffering from severe grief (I have Autism Spectrum Disorder).
The petty crim took the advantage to attack me while i was in the early stages of grief, and stalked me to a sports centre where i frequented to use the gym / punch bags.
The crim basically waited for me to train, hiding in a blind spot in the sports centre, and when i was on my way out, he creeped up behind me and rabbit punched me in the back of the head, attacking from behind.
At the time i had a hooded parker on, with my hood up, which the crim pulled the hood down over me, trying to floor me.
The funny thing was, although I didn't spot the attack coming, because i was still extremely disorientated due to the grief etc, The criminals attack didn't hurt, and when he attempted to pull me to the floor, pulling my hood over my head so I couldn't see, i simply just pulled my coat off over my head, along with my gym bag, and just stood up and looked at him as if he was a complete idiot.
The criminal. was shocked, and then panicked and started shouting "Help, I'm being attacked"
(So much for the tough hard man that he pretends to be to his gang of crims.... hahaha)
Anyway, because the guy started shouting, the gym staff came running and one member of staff stayed with each of us, and they phoned the police.
The criminal tried to make out that I was the instigator and bully, who had attacked him unprovokingly.
When the police turned up, they knew who the crim was and knew him from the many times he had been in trouble before.
Luckily for me, the police were able to get the CCTV footage of the entire incident which proved that everything happened as i had explained and the crim was sent to court without me having to write a statement or appear in court.
If there had been no CCTV footage however, the result may have been completely different, as the legal system in the island that I live, is far from what it is in many other places, and it can be more of a case of who you know rather than who's telling the truth. As with every police force, there are some police who are bent, or who may have gone to school with the crim, who may still be friends of the criminal and decide to favour the crim rather than you, despite your innocence,
I have learn't however that CCTV footage can not always be relied on, so my advice is for kids to best try your best to avoid conflict if possible.
I also recommend using the "fence" strategy if a conflict starts to escalate.
As for self defence in the UK, I would say that it would be better alive and in prison than do nothing and end up dead.
But, ideally try and avoid conflict, try and make an effort to diffuse any escalating conflict, try and distract, or use humour or reason with the attackers if possible. If you can escape by walking off, do so.
But if the attackers continue to pursue you, and you have no choice to walk or run.
then defend yourself!
I think that teaching self defense needs to include the laws of the land.
I grew up training, and had a kind of opposite experience to that of the OP's story.
I started American Kenpo when i was 11, and was trained by 1st generation GM Ed Parker Snr students, as well as attending quiet a few GM Parker seminars.
I was taught from a fairly early age the Kenpo way of fighting. This is ironic, as I live on a small island in the UK, that has low population and low violent crime, especially low knife and firearm related crimes.
The laws in the UK are also completely different to the US. In the US, by law you have some right to defend your self under various circumstances and if someone breaks into your house, you have the right to even shoot them dead.
In the UK, the laws with regards to self defense are completely different, and in the island that i live,
the laws are even stricter or should I say more conservative.
I have over the years had a chat with the local police to see what I am allowed to do with regards to defending myself using martial arts.
During one period, i was being stalked by a group or small gang of local petty criminals, who were stalking me with clear bad intentions.
I asked them what I was allowed to do, if i was attacked by several of these petty criminal idiots, some who were bigger than me.
They basically told me that I could do nothing and I was best to call them on my mobile and they would send someone out to deal with the attack. Great advice! In my experience, if you call the police, the police rarely send someone out.
So. basically, if you take the police's advice, if I were not to defend myself, I potentially could get kicked to death by a gang of petty criminal nasty people.
As it happened, I managed to avoid the people by being street wise and being clever about the routes and areas that I travelled into. Staying in areas that were populated with witnesses, and staying in areas that had CCTV coverage.
In case an incident occured, there would be a high chance of any attack being caught on film, which could be used to prove your innocence in court.
As it happened, I was attacked during one incident during this period. The attacker attacked me literally a week after I had lost my older brother to a drug overdose and I was suffering from severe grief (I have Autism Spectrum Disorder).
The petty crim took the advantage to attack me while i was in the early stages of grief, and stalked me to a sports centre where i frequented to use the gym / punch bags.
The crim basically waited for me to train, hiding in a blind spot in the sports centre, and when i was on my way out, he creeped up behind me and rabbit punched me in the back of the head, attacking from behind.
At the time i had a hooded parker on, with my hood up, which the crim pulled the hood down over me, trying to floor me.
The funny thing was, although I didn't spot the attack coming, because i was still extremely disorientated due to the grief etc, The criminals attack didn't hurt, and when he attempted to pull me to the floor, pulling my hood over my head so I couldn't see, i simply just pulled my coat off over my head, along with my gym bag, and just stood up and looked at him as if he was a complete idiot.
The criminal. was shocked, and then panicked and started shouting "Help, I'm being attacked"
(So much for the tough hard man that he pretends to be to his gang of crims.... hahaha)
Anyway, because the guy started shouting, the gym staff came running and one member of staff stayed with each of us, and they phoned the police.
The criminal tried to make out that I was the instigator and bully, who had attacked him unprovokingly.
When the police turned up, they knew who the crim was and knew him from the many times he had been in trouble before.
Luckily for me, the police were able to get the CCTV footage of the entire incident which proved that everything happened as i had explained and the crim was sent to court without me having to write a statement or appear in court.
If there had been no CCTV footage however, the result may have been completely different, as the legal system in the island that I live, is far from what it is in many other places, and it can be more of a case of who you know rather than who's telling the truth. As with every police force, there are some police who are bent, or who may have gone to school with the crim, who may still be friends of the criminal and decide to favour the crim rather than you, despite your innocence,
I have learn't however that CCTV footage can not always be relied on, so my advice is for kids to best try your best to avoid conflict if possible.
I also recommend using the "fence" strategy if a conflict starts to escalate.
As for self defence in the UK, I would say that it would be better alive and in prison than do nothing and end up dead.
But, ideally try and avoid conflict, try and make an effort to diffuse any escalating conflict, try and distract, or use humour or reason with the attackers if possible. If you can escape by walking off, do so.
But if the attackers continue to pursue you, and you have no choice to walk or run.
then defend yourself!
Phoenix44
Master of Arts
While I think the topic is interesting and important, I also think you made a lot of generalizations that are based on personal experience. Passive kids are not necessarily taught to be that way by their parents. In sparring, people do not necessarily "back away" because they're passive...maybe they're not as big as you, or not as strong as you, or not as experienced, or because you're the instructor. Or maybe they *were* more aggressive sometime and place in their life, and it resulted in a bad outcome. Plus, many parents want their kids to get martial arts training to *become* more assertive. And there's a genetic component: I've seen premature newborns in a neonatal intensive care unit who were more "aggressive" than others, pulling out their IVs and ET tubes...and they've never had the social influence of their parents.
In my experience, just striving toward mastery of a martial art, and many other pursuits, helps improve assertiveness.
In my experience, just striving toward mastery of a martial art, and many other pursuits, helps improve assertiveness.
Interesting what you say about premature newborns, as I was premature and i would say that i have a stronger spirit than many. I actually was pretty much stillborn. I suffered from oxygen starvation to an extreme due to a very dysfunctional or damaged umbilical cord.
Apparently I stopped breathing for several minutes at birth, and was given the last rights by a catholic priest.
I was not expected to live more than a week, maybe 2 weeks max. I am now 48 and still alive and kicking.
I would say if i had a weak spirit, i would not have lived. It takes grit to survive difficult circumstances and trauma.
I have taught kids karate and judo for several years.
I think the more timid kids just need the right approach by a good coach in order to develop in the right manner.
They need to be nurtured with the right type of training (developmental sparing rather than out and out war)
which can be used to help each individual develop confidence and you would be surprised as to how confident and skilled kids become.
This does take a good teacher with a lot of patience and kindness, as well as time, to spend time with each kid to help them develop in the right way. Such coaching can be hard to find, as clubs that have a high volume of coaches that operate democratically and intelligently, in my experience are rare. Politics get in the way.
But not impossible. Timid kids perhaps could benefit from one on one lessons or small groups of similar types of kids,
which can be helped to develop away from the more confident and vicious kids, and when they are ready, they can join the bigger class.
Apparently I stopped breathing for several minutes at birth, and was given the last rights by a catholic priest.
I was not expected to live more than a week, maybe 2 weeks max. I am now 48 and still alive and kicking.
I would say if i had a weak spirit, i would not have lived. It takes grit to survive difficult circumstances and trauma.
I have taught kids karate and judo for several years.
I think the more timid kids just need the right approach by a good coach in order to develop in the right manner.
They need to be nurtured with the right type of training (developmental sparing rather than out and out war)
which can be used to help each individual develop confidence and you would be surprised as to how confident and skilled kids become.
This does take a good teacher with a lot of patience and kindness, as well as time, to spend time with each kid to help them develop in the right way. Such coaching can be hard to find, as clubs that have a high volume of coaches that operate democratically and intelligently, in my experience are rare. Politics get in the way.
But not impossible. Timid kids perhaps could benefit from one on one lessons or small groups of similar types of kids,
which can be helped to develop away from the more confident and vicious kids, and when they are ready, they can join the bigger class.
- Thread Starter
- #46
Of course, the idea that people should stand up for themselves might be repulsive to the people who want to control them. This is how my elders felt as I was growing up and it allowed them to treat me as a punching bag who wouldn't fight back. This is the type of behavior I want to see less of from people who call themselves adults and it's something I want to see more young people fight back against. I don't want kids to be disobedient; I just want them to be brave enough to stand up to parents or teachers who abuse their power.
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wolfeyes2323
Green Belt
this is related to the expression of virtue in
our MA and kata . Many kata are taught with a
defensive move at the end of the form. We are
in position, we are justified in our actions,
(the technique of the kata), but , we choose
to spare a defeated or inferior opponent (the sword
that gives life), this is a expression of virtue.
If we end confrontation from a position of weakness,
it is not a expression of virtue, it is submission.
So if we could not follow through with our defense
and prevail we can not be virtuous by not engaging
we had no real choice.
I teach my youth all the same, it is simple,
Engage the brain and senses, confrontation seldom
begins without warning, or events that precipitate it.
When a threat is detected we can leave or if we can not
then we should seek a strong position, where we can not
be snuck up on blind sided or ambushed. We can not
allow this position to be compromised without acting .
We can not wait for someone to be in our face, with their
hands on us or around our neck before we decide to do
something, we must act while we have the advantage of
surprise, where we can control the timing of the
engagement , and determine where it will be fought ,
and we must keep the advantage. We can
not allow our position to be compromised before we act.
We can show compassion , and mercy which are a expression
of virtue, but only from a unassailable position.
auntlisa1103
Orange Belt
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I really think we need to remember “nature vs. nurture” here. With all respect to OP, just because you were raised that way doesn’t mean all non-assertive people were raised to be that way. Individuality plays a much larger role than I think you are considering.
I’ve lived through some people’s worst nightmares. Family tragedies, health crises, blindness (and the journey to restore partial vision). As someone else mentioned it takes a lot of internal fortitude to make it through.
Verbally, I’m a very assertive person. In the dojang, however, I really have to work on my willingness to fight. I far prefer to hang back and self defend until I find an opening. That’s not because I was raised to be a doormat, it’s because I’m not a physically aggressive person.
Having said that, in many cases I’m also not a CONFIDENT person. But that’s also about my personality rather than any parenting I received. And it is an area where martial arts has helped me a lot. Heck, six weeks in, my husband said my dog listened to me better when I commanded him….from working on my kiyap (two weeks later I also found myself down blocking the same dog to the chest without thinking, because he was playfully jumping at me and almost knocked me down, but that’s another story).
Have you ever heard the expression, “meet people where they’re at”? Meet your students where THEY are at, not where YOU were when you were that age. Don’t assume your upbringing is theirs. I would focus on building confidence, and let whatever assertiveness they are going to find develop (or not, quite frankly, depending on personality) from there.
I’ve lived through some people’s worst nightmares. Family tragedies, health crises, blindness (and the journey to restore partial vision). As someone else mentioned it takes a lot of internal fortitude to make it through.
Verbally, I’m a very assertive person. In the dojang, however, I really have to work on my willingness to fight. I far prefer to hang back and self defend until I find an opening. That’s not because I was raised to be a doormat, it’s because I’m not a physically aggressive person.
Having said that, in many cases I’m also not a CONFIDENT person. But that’s also about my personality rather than any parenting I received. And it is an area where martial arts has helped me a lot. Heck, six weeks in, my husband said my dog listened to me better when I commanded him….from working on my kiyap (two weeks later I also found myself down blocking the same dog to the chest without thinking, because he was playfully jumping at me and almost knocked me down, but that’s another story).
Have you ever heard the expression, “meet people where they’re at”? Meet your students where THEY are at, not where YOU were when you were that age. Don’t assume your upbringing is theirs. I would focus on building confidence, and let whatever assertiveness they are going to find develop (or not, quite frankly, depending on personality) from there.
Petey Nunchakus
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Imo, you're just installing confidence, baby! I wouldn't call it assertiveness.. I'd call it confidence.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
Interestingly, studies have shown that this is often gender based, in that when interpreting the same behavior from men and women, the men will often be viewed as assertive and direct, and women will often be viewed as aggressive and pushy. There's a huge body of research behind this, if you're interested. I am most familiar with this in a professional setting, but the ideas seem to translate pretty directly to other areas of our lives.
Bottom line, though, is that the line between assertive and rude/aggressive is highly subjective and probably very unreliable.
- Thread Starter
- #52
Yes. This is why it's good to know how to balance being assertive and being friendly. Assertiveness seems to be more effective when one is otherwise kind and well mannered. People also tend to listen to you more when they like you. To be assertive with a mean, rude personality is just strange.
That’s interesting as I perceived it to be the other way around!
caped crusader
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What I mean is some kids are Dozy, half asleep not street wise either. More often than not some get sent to play a sport martial art or Fitness studio to wake or liven them up. Not everyone lives in the USA with Lots of high school sports on offer. Best way to bring them out is some Kind of training.
I think you misunderstood my point.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
doesn’t need to be a high school sport. Fitness and martial arts are just fine. So are drama, chess club, math teams, and band.
caped crusader
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come on bro... most of these people are victims. This is a martial arts forum so on topic no...i do not think being a chess champion is important to defend yourself or build your body.
caped crusader
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I have always believed in the saying, A healthy mind in a healthy body. Being a computer or Chess nerd will not help you build confidence or self esteem for outside in the real world, even Manager type people are put on survival courses to learn how to deal with conflicts & man managment which being a book worm will not teach you. I am not against education type things but i got more out of being in boys clubs in scotland such as the boys brigade. I learned discipline, sport & earned my rank. maybe i was just made to be a soldier i don´t know.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
No but it can help kids with their self confidence and competitiveness. Both ingredients of assertiveness.
And there’s nothing that says you can’t be on the chess team and the wrestling team. I was.
The thread is about assertiveness, not building your body or defending yourself.
you and I are talking about two different things. I’m okay with that
caped crusader
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Steve
Mostly Harmless
pretty good at both. I wish I had known about chess boxing at the time. Might have given that a go.
Well, now we are talking about me. But before, yeah, I think so.
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