Taxi driver kills 12 and wounds 25 in English Lake District

[Tez3]

What's new?

Ain't that the truth! We have all the so called experts coming out of the woodwork with an opinion. And everyone has a theory!

 

[jks9199]

The scary thing is that he's lived there all his life, as with these places everyone knows everyone, he was quiet, likable, not known to have any weapns, liked motorbikes and scuba diving. Perfectly normal until this morning then it seems a literal brainstorm.


...

I think this has little to do with guns more finding out what could turn a nice middle aged man into a killer leaving a trail or carnage over most of the county.

That's what comes out at first almost every time something like this happens. "He was such a quiet guy... he was so normal..."

Except, as you start to look into things, you'll probably find that there was a lot going on that wasn't seen or happened gradually enough or discretely enough that it was just accepted.

The cases like Seung-Hi Cho, where they were openly and clearly messed up to begin with, are pretty rare. People just have a tendency to let things slip gradually and make allowances for their friends and neighbors.

 

[Tez3]

That's what comes out at first almost every time something like this happens. "He was such a quiet guy... he was so normal..."

Except, as you start to look into things, you'll probably find that there was a lot going on that wasn't seen or happened gradually enough or discretely enough that it was just accepted.

The cases like Seung-Hi Cho, where they were openly and clearly messed up to begin with, are pretty rare. People just have a tendency to let things slip gradually and make allowances for their friends and neighbors.

Exactly! After the event though there's always those who 'knew' but it simply isn't true. It probably means we shouldn't bottle things up if anything is to be learnt from this, find someone, somewhere to let all that pain out in a constructive way not like this.

 

[jks9199]

Exactly! After the event though there's always those who 'knew' but it simply isn't true. It probably means we shouldn't bottle things up if anything is to be learnt from this, find someone, somewhere to let all that pain out in a constructive way not like this.

That's a great point. Along the same lines, though, I'd say that we need to look out for each other and fight that natural tendency to let things slip. From one of the posts above, there were apparently several preceding incidents. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that the pattern was something like "Oh, he's just under a lot of stress because of..." or "he's just blowing off steam, he doesn't really mean that the way it sounds."

While you in England have lots more experience with terror -- sadly, I think we here in the US have the experience with these incidents. And the truth is that there are lots of common factors... and we still see them go down the same way. Too often, the red flags are only noticed in hind sight.

 

[Deaf Smith]

So what will the U.K. ban next? SOMETHING must be done! .22 bolt actions? All break open shotguns?

Not a short while ago in China many school children were killed by a nut with some knives.

So maybe that's it. Ban knives to (wait... I think they are banned, at least for carrying them.)

Yea, soon the U.K. will be down to spoons for dinner and not one firearm left (nor skill to use firearms) there. And one day the Visigoths will be at your door, and they will have guns and they will be skilled.

You had a close call in WW2 when we sent you a whole bunch of rifles and pistols to stop Hiler from coming over to say hi. I don't think you will have that luxury next time.

Deaf

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Deaf, it should go without saying I agree on all points but this really isn't the place nor time on a thread to the memory of those lost.

EDIT: My mistake, this is in the Study, not the Hall of Remembrance. Sorry about that.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Ain't that the truth! We have all the so called experts coming out of the woodwork with an opinion. And everyone has a theory!

Like Prof. Cox.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Tez3]

Like Prof. Cox.

Pax,

Chris

Yep but it was nice not to have an Anglo hating American mocking, sneering and belittling us.

Deaf, your comments as usual are pointless, you have no understanding of the Brits, you don't even like us and you usually get things wrong. Like criticising our police for ticking a singer off about waving a knife at an intruder, oh no, that's right, it turns out it didn't happen her agent made it up. Oh and you SOLD us the arms in that last war, it was no gift. Got America nicely out of the recession didn't it.

Snipe and troll away, dear boy, they say ignorance is bliss and I do like to see you so happy.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Yep but it was nice not to have an Anglo hating American mocking, sneering and belittling us.

It's not hating Tez3. I could point out alot of the same thing in South America, Africa, Asia, etc...

It's just a good object lesson as to why a disarmed society is vulnerable.

Those Visigoths are for real.

Deaf

 

[Tez3]

It's not hating Tez3. I could point out alot of the same thing in South America, Africa, Asia, etc...

It's just a good object lesson as to why a disarmed society is vulnerable.

Those Visigoths are for real.

Deaf

Oh yes it's hating because you don't point it out in any concerned way, you sneer, you patronise and you troll. You sit back and your computer believing it's your way or the wrong way and boy is everyone else wrong.
And I bet you know exactly how you would have dealt with this Cumbrian kiler don't you? What I haven't mentioned is the comments that are going around about how if this had been America, the police would be out with the RPGs blowing the vehicle off the planet and most of the surrounding village with it, how the police would shoot everybody but the bad guy and so on and so on. How everybody would be out shooting and there'd be a massacre.
Trust me, guns aren't that popular here and we've already shown our willingness and ability to fight against our country's enemies. I don't think we have anything to prove or to apologise for, our country, our rules, our people. If you don't like it, don't come here, stay away.

This government won't ban shotguns and rifles, it's the party of the landowners so it's never going to happen so wrong again I'm afraid.


Arming the population would have done nothing to save anyone in Cumbria on that day. You can fool yourself into thinking you would have been the one to save everyone but over here the word 'cowboy' is used disparagingly to mean someone unqualified who botches a job and causes more damage.

 

[jks9199]

Deaf, it should go without saying I agree on all points but this really isn't the place nor time on a thread to the memory of those lost.

EDIT: My mistake, this is in the Study, not the Hall of Remembrance. Sorry about that.

That's OK; it's still not the place or time to do a rant on gun rights. England has their history and their laws. There's no automatic reason to believe that any right of gun ownership or carry would have changed the outcome.

At the moment, this looks very much like a typical spree killing. These often involve people who could legally possess the weapons used. Warning signs were ignored or discounted. And people died. Maybe we should walk away with the idea that just maybe if we pay attention to those around us, and not discount them or the red flags, we can prevent them without ANYBODY getting hurt.

 

[Grenadier]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please keep this conversation civil, and on topic.

-Ronald Shin
-MT Supermoderator

 

[Tez3]

From the Chief Constable of Cumbria at a press conference.

http://news.scotsman.com/17651/Cumbria-shootings-We-could-do.6342394.jp

 

[Deaf Smith]

This government won't ban shotguns and rifles, it's the party of the landowners so it's never going to happen so wrong again I'm afraid.

They have already banned pump and simi-auto shotguns in U.K Tez3.

They have banned high powered rifles in the U.K. Tez3.

Won't take that much effort to ban .22s and break open shotguns.

Arming the populace would not have stopped him? I can name several incidences here where an armed citizen did stop such a person. It's not a 100 percent guarantee but nothing is.

One thing for sure, an UNARMED populace sure cannot stop such an individual. That is a 100 percent guarantee!

Deaf

 

[tellner]

One of the things that makes the spree killer so difficult to defend against is the lack of . If someone is breaking into your house you have a pretty good idea that whatever is tearing down the door is probably where you should be aiming. If your abusive ex shows up in spite of the restraining order a smart lady will probably figure she should keep an eye on him. If a cop has been called to a bank robbery he'd have to be comatose if he didn't consider the group of guys wearing masks and splattered by dye packets a primary threat. If two guys are having an argument about a working girl's dubious favors they've got a pretty good idea as to who is about to hit them and why.

If someone with no obvious reason to be angry with, let alone kill you stands comes up and points a shotgun at you it's going to take a moment or two for most of us to put two and two together and get something between three and five.

 

[Deaf Smith]

If someone with no obvious reason to be angry with, let alone kill you stands comes up and points a shotgun at you it's going to take a moment or two for most of us to put two and two together and get something between three and five.

Usually the spree killer is not killed by the very victims they are in the process of killing. It's a bystander who takes action. They see it happening and decide to do more than just cower in a corner.

Deaf

 

[Senjojutsu]

First let me express my sincere sympathies to the loss of life and pain of this crime to the UK members.

Second a confession. I have always wanted to do a classic WWF Rowdy Roddy Piper “Piper’s Pit" type of interview (YES including the coconut smash to the forehead technique) with many of these so called “experts” who ALWAYS come out of the woodwork after these types of shootings to pontificate. I should type out more about my justifications – but this story was just published today about certain peccadilloes and “relationship issues” that the shooter had.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3002242/Psycho-cabbies-Thai-gun-club.html

I will leave it to the British members to comment if The Sun should be considered even worthy of comment as a source on this thread.

Having unrequited love with a Thai hooker or a pending $200K tax lien – which would more likely cause me to snap???

 

[Tez3]

First let me express my sincere sympathies to the loss of life and pain of this crime to the UK members.

Second a confession. I have always wanted to do a classic WWF Rowdy Roddy Piper “Piper’s Pit" type of interview (YES including the coconut smash to the forehead technique) with many of these so called “experts” who ALWAYS come out of the woodwork after these types of shootings to pontificate. I should type out more about my justifications – but this story was just published today about certain peccadilloes and “relationship issues” that the shooter had.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3002242/Psycho-cabbies-Thai-gun-club.html

I will leave it to the British members to comment if The Sun should be considered even worthy of comment as a source on this thread.

Having unrequited love with a Thai hooker or a pending $200K tax lien – which would more likely cause me to snap???

The Sun, well lets just say that it's front page doesn't have world shattering news on it's front cover, it has something about a WAG breaking up with her boyfriend.

All sorts of things are coming our supposedly.
He killed the solicitor because...
a. the solicititor refused to lie to the Inland Revenue for him or
b. the solicitor messed him around during the divorce or
c. the solicitor messed him around over his mothers will.

The killer was supposed to have given loads of money to the Thai girl and couldn't pay the Inland Revenue or he had loads of money and was too tight to pay anyone.

He's supposed to have planned this for five years yet was also supposed to have been a kind gentle man.

Who knows the truth? Perhaps only the dead man.


Deaf, are you stating you think the Cumbrians are cowards for not shooting back and as you say 'cowering in a corner', bad taste that and going too far to try and prove a point the mods have already suggested staying off.

 

[Sukerkin]

I don't believe that that was what DS was trying to say,Tez; as I read it, he was speaking in general terms about a response to a circumstance.

But I do concur that further perambulation away from the core topic should be curtailed. The thread has attracted attention from the staff for the wrong reasons and given the actual topic that is a very poor thing indeed to see happen.

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Also, apologies for having to rebuild your post above. I don't know if I clicked the wrong button {"Edit" instead of "Reply With Quote"} or the site had a malfunction. Hopefully I put it back together correctly.

 

[Tez3]

I don't believe that that was what DS was trying to say,Tez; as I read it, he was speaking in general terms about a response to a circumstance.

But I do concur that further perambulation away from the core topic should be curtailed. The thread has attracted attention from the staff for the wrong reasons and given the actual topic that is a very poor thing indeed to see happen.

==============================================================================================

Also, apologies for having to rebuild your post above. I don't know if I clicked the wrong button {"Edit" instead of "Reply With Quote"} or the site had a malfunction. Hopefully I put it back together correctly.

Seems fine!

He may or may not have meant the comment to pertain to this case but by posting on this thread it came out looking that way.

If the detectives are having a hard time piecing together what happened and they know the people, the land and the towns it's not guesswork to think someone many thousands of miles away in a different country with different laws and mores cannot understand sufficently what went on and how to respond to this situation.


The Times has a reasonable report without the sleaze of The Sun.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article7144697.ece