Taxi driver kills 12 and wounds 25 in English Lake District

Tez3

Tez3

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A most saddening thing to happen.

A work colleague of mine is in that area (we have offices up there) and an old University friend of mine is from Seascale. Over and above the normal human reaction and, daft as it may be to worry according to 'probability', it is hard not to be concerned.
 
Absolutely shocking. The people of Cumbria have gone through a lot recently, devasting floods, two children killed last week in a bus crash (police officers were attending a memorial service for the lass when they were called out) and now this. It's a small county and they've had to call on the help of neighbouring police as well as two non Home Office forces. The RAF helped the air ambulances ferry people to hospital. There's over 30 crime scenes.
Latest news http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/10214661.stm

The Cumbrians are stoic, good country folk but dear lord, this is terrible for them, my prayers and thoughts are with them.
 
An awful thing. Makes you wonder about the intelligence of banning weapons all over again. Had the fella on the news who phoned 999 gone instead and got his 9mm things might have been very different. Easy to say though. Still looking for casualties apparently. Terrible.

Tez, am I right in thinking there are only two non-Home Office forces? Cumbria springing to mind as a logical concentration of one of them.

Curious that the police said they were keen to discover whether he had a licence for the gun. Because that will make all the difference. That would suggest that it was a shotgun, as has been alluded to. One of the locals reported a 'very long sniper rifle'.

Awful.
 
FieldDiscipline said:
An awful thing. Makes you wonder about the intelligence of banning weapons all over again. Had the fella on the news who phoned 999 gone instead and got his 9mm things might have been very different. Easy to say though. Still looking for casualties apparently. Terrible.

Tez, am I right in thinking there are only two non-Home Office forces? Cumbria springing to mind as a logical concentration of one of them.

Curious that the police said they were keen to discover whether he had a licence for the gun. Because that will make all the difference. That would suggest that it was a shotgun, as has been alluded to. One of the locals reported a 'very long sniper rifle'.

Awful.
Click to expand...

From what they were saying on our local news (we are all 'north' as far as the tv companies are concerned) it was a shotgun and a .22 with telescopic sight.
The Nuclear Police were deployed from Windscale which was locked down and the Modplod being an armed force were the two non Home Office forces.
There's nearly 2 million shotguns in the country several thousand of them in Cumbria, we in North Yorks have thousands too.

The scary thing is that he's lived there all his life, as with these places everyone knows everyone, he was quiet, likable, not known to have any weapns, liked motorbikes and scuba diving. Perfectly normal until this morning then it seems a literal brainstorm.


The witnesses said that despite sitting holding the bodies of the victims said they didn't believe they'd been shot, it was so out of their experience they could do nothing. As one said it was surreal. As I said there's plenty of guns in Cumbria and there's plenty who would have shot him but the unbelievable happened so fast they could do nothing. It's like your grandad or next door neighbour you'd known for all your life suddenly killing people. He was in his 4x4 shooting as he was driving, he covered most of the county in those three hours. Seems he slowed, targetted, shot then hared off to the next place on his agenda. You could have had any number of people armed with 9mm or whatever and it would have been impossible to take him down in his vehicle without causing more casualties.

I think this has little to do with guns more finding out what could turn a nice middle aged man into a killer leaving a trail or carnage over most of the county.


"Kirsty McGrath, from Cleator, near Egremont, echoed his thoughts.
"We have seen police cars flying up and down the main street and heard sirens for most of the morning.
"It can't be real, you see these things happening on TV but think they won't affect your village."
However, Esther Phillips, who was on holiday in Egremont with a view to moving to Whitehaven, said she had been impressed by the way the community reacted as people sought shelter in a gallery.
"The manager was there, along with several locals and tourists. We drank tea and were very well looked after," she said.
"People here are shocked as this is very unusual. But people are also very quiet, it feels like there's community spirit."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10218119.stm


I know to many the Brits sitting drinking tea in the time of crisis is a cliche but aren't they the most brilliant people? Tragedy after tragedy and they sit with quiet dignity putting their lives back together again.
 
5 posts. When I first saw the thread, one of the first things that came to mind was 'how long before somebosy chimes in with the usual if the populace was armed, this would not have taken place.'

Just amazing.
 
My condolences to the families of the victims. If he acquired the weapons illegally I hope the seller is tracked down and prosecuted to the full extent of the Law.
 
All legal and above board and owned for twenty years, Tellner.

He just went crackers and used the tools he had at his disposal to first rid himself of those that annoyed him and then a few extra before finally turning on himself.

As we ever say, guns don't kill people, people do ... but the gun makes it all too easy.

Small update is that my workmate had left the area before the horrible events occurred and my old university friend has not been reported amongst those slain.
 
My condolensces to the victims and their families.

I once again find myself wondering, why do we keep hearing news stories about suicidal people who first take their rage out on innocent victims before offing themselves? Can't they just take themselves out first and be done with it? I know I'm asking reason of people who're obviously beyond rational thought, but c'mon.
 
I was frantically tryng to get on to Iain Abernethy's website last nite but AOL were messing around so I went to bed not able to, as many know he's a renown martial artist and a brilliant exponent of karate Bunkai, he lives in Cumbria with his wife and children. I've spoken to his wife on the phone before and she's a lovely friendly lady, Iain must have been frantic about his family.
I've just checked his site and this is what he said about the day, truly terrifying but luckily they are alright
http://www.iainabernethy.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000522;p=1#000000



Statements by the Home Secretary and the Deputy Chief Constable have said that everything possible is being done to find out the how and why, the how they said is being investigated by over 100 detectives so they are sure they can piece together the events of the day. What they said though is that they can't promise they will find out why. They have confirmed he wasn't on medication, wasn't diagnosed with any mental health issues and had seemed totally 'normal' in all respects. The weapons were legally held, he had convictions for theft a few years back, no prison time so likely to be petty. He became a grandfather just last week, he also though shot and killed his twin brother.
It's being spoken of as a completely freakish 'brainstorm' almost, Cumbria is a very safe area, think Beatrix Potter little villages and Wordsworth daffodils, among hills and lakes, totally beautiful. If you ever have a chance to go please do so, you won't regret it.

On the subject of gun laws, the Home Secretary said nothing will be said or done until a complete investigation of the case by the police and an enquiry to see if anything could have been done to avoid this, my gut feeling is no. The police forces, emergency servies, RAF and everyone concerned acted in the most professional way and while the tragic loss of life is awful, quick action by police and others I'm sure saved other lives, there was no gung ho tactics by the armed response teams who I know would not have hesitated to shoot to kill if necessary and safe to do so.
 
Sukerkin said:
, guns don't kill people, people do ... but the gun makes it all too easy.
Click to expand...

So do automobiles. People have been using them as lethal weapons increasingly. Way too easy to run someone over.

Airplanes are even more effective: I don't know of any rifle, shotgun or handgun that can take out a whole skyscraper and the hundreds of people within with a single action.

Fire is bad, too. Kills people all the time — both with heat and smoke. Ditto for petrol: Molotov cocktails! Ouch. I think I'd rather be shot than burn to death.

Oh: and water. People are always drowning other people — and water is EVERYWHERE!! Better add that to the list.

The point is, if someone is going to go berserk there are plenty of things readily at their disposal to make it easier to kill people.


As a (arguably) skilled martial artists, I would LOVE to stuff the genie back in the bottle. I would be MUCH happier and feel MUCH more secure if firearms could be un-invented.

But firearms can not be un-invented. Even if they are all destroyed, the know-how can't be: someone will just make more.

And criminals and crazies can and will get their hands on them. Stand to reason, then, in my opinion, that the best solution is to arm myself and train to the point where I am better, I hope, than the Bad Guys.

At least I have a fighting chance that way.
 
Tez3 said:
I think this has little to do with guns more finding out what could turn a nice middle aged man into a killer leaving a trail or carnage over most of the county.
Click to expand...

A nice middle aged man who mowed down a bunch of his nice, unarmed, fellow citizens with a gun.

Disarming the general populace - whatever the intention - is a way to control people you don't trust. When, not if, someone gets their hands on a weapon the rest don't have it will never end well.

Pax,

Chris
 
Such a beautiful place has been tarnished by a madman! In hindsight we can see that there were Pre Incident Indicators to suggest he just might do something crazy.

-He had been in a vicious argument with both his brother and family solicitor, concerning his mother's will.

-After another vicious argument with fellow taxi drivers, he calmly shook them by the hand and told them that they would never see him again. He also said that there would be violent encounters starting with his mother. His coworkers just laughed at him.

-He was known to have legal firearms and his recent erratic behaviour was out of character.

I'm not saying anything could've been done, I'm just saying that we have to start taking people's threats seriously. If someone suggest that they're about to go postal, especially after stress such as a dying relative, estrangement of family or losing a job, we should take them seriously.

My heart goes out to all the families mourning their loved ones today. I hope that this lunatic's family our also considered victims by the populace. They too will be mourning today and they are left with the stigma of being associated with this guy.
 
"If it bleeds, it leads!"

This is shocking precisely because it's unusual. One of the great problems with the Information Age is its lust for novelty. A Cumbrian is more likely to get struck by lightning, but this will get played and re-played and over analyzed and turned into a moral panic because it captures eyeballs and sells advertising.

Hell, most Americans think the crime rate is at record highs when it's down to its lowest levels in almost sixty years.

We're constantly bombarded with scientifically designed appeals to our glands, so people take a tragedy and turn it into an obsession.
 
The BBC newsnight programme did an interview via satellite with a Prof Cox an American criminologist who said this was a totally random, unpreventable event. He said that there was nothing anyone could have done to prevent it as it's only after the fact that people are remembering things that were said by the man, who was known to make idle threats when very drunk. He also stated that the British gun laws are a success not a failure because this sort of crime is so extremely rare.
A family member of the killler has also said all the rumours of vicious family fights etc are untrue, it's all rumour and conjecture. It remains the case of a man who totally lost it and in doing so killed 12 people as well as injuring others.
Being armed may make you feel safe but when a mate you've known all your life pulls alongside you in his car and blasts you in the head with a shotgun you are no safer than anyone else.
The government has again said there will be no knee jerk reactions to this and no new laws. People are believing the press way too much.
 
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