A friend sent me this video of himself cutting targets. He's been studying shinkendo for a short time...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLfhme6KaB0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLfhme6KaB0
target cutting video
- Thread starter DavidCC
- Start date
He cuts very quickly and confidently, for someone who has been studying for a short period of time. I've only done tameshigiri four times, and two of those times I only cut a mat or two. Perhaps someone with a little more experience could study his techique, since I am still learning myself.
Hi David,
Your friend must be one of those naturals that I hate so much!
He cuts very well for having only been training a short while. The only constructive comments that I could make would be to slow down, and to be careful to not over-commit (he's using a lot more body than he needs to). Those are both things that will work out on their own with experience.
It makes a nice contrast to most of the junk that is posted on youtube. Tell your friend that we appreciate his efforts!
Your friend must be one of those naturals that I hate so much!
He cuts very well for having only been training a short while. The only constructive comments that I could make would be to slow down, and to be careful to not over-commit (he's using a lot more body than he needs to). Those are both things that will work out on their own with experience.
It makes a nice contrast to most of the junk that is posted on youtube. Tell your friend that we appreciate his efforts!
socho
White Belt
sigh. why do I always have to be the bad guy? First, I just don't really understand why people put vids out of themselves cutting, especially if they are fairly junior. It is a nice way to document progress perhaps, but I guarantee if this gentleman looks at this in a year, or two, or more, he will be pretty embarassed. Two, not really sure that Shinkendo even permits this, as they have traditionally been not very public. Of course, that may be changing, have seen several vids of senior people in the system lately. And three, the part that bothers me is that people who do not train will see this and think it is correct, or good, or cool, and it may not be.
Ok, couple of comments, and just my opinion, so take it for what it is worth (or not). I do not do Shinkendo, do not know their cuts, but am surprised to see some fairly standard cuts used by Hataya-sensei's line of Toyama (Seibukan?). Am not in that either, but my group does their cuts for training and competition.
Anyway, overall, for that amount of time, not bad. A bit rushed, fairly consistent in that. Just a couple of specifics - third cut, draw cut from seiza - draws, pulls back, and then cuts. Extremely dangerous. cutting from the draw should be one smooth, continuous motion, cut comes directly from the saya, not from a wind up. not unusual, much easier to do it this way and almost everyone does, at first, but not right. and not good. fourth cut, standing kesa, then cutting the top piece in the air. Good timing, ok flow, not an easy cut. But rushed, looked like he was thinking of the second cut while doing the first. Look at the impact on the first cut, not smooth, 'clunks', which moves the top piece further off than it should. Makes the cut, though. Next one, standing draw cut, same deal as kneeling. Draws, pulls back, then cuts. Very dangerous. Not iai. Some other minor issues there, too, but you get the idea.
So, successful cutting, lots of energy, reasonable focus, but still lots of technical and control issues, IMO. Keep training. Too bad the Shinkendo guys do not participate in some of the open tai kai around the US, they would probably do well, make the Toyama and Seki guys work harder .
Dave
Ok, couple of comments, and just my opinion, so take it for what it is worth (or not). I do not do Shinkendo, do not know their cuts, but am surprised to see some fairly standard cuts used by Hataya-sensei's line of Toyama (Seibukan?). Am not in that either, but my group does their cuts for training and competition.
Anyway, overall, for that amount of time, not bad. A bit rushed, fairly consistent in that. Just a couple of specifics - third cut, draw cut from seiza - draws, pulls back, and then cuts. Extremely dangerous. cutting from the draw should be one smooth, continuous motion, cut comes directly from the saya, not from a wind up. not unusual, much easier to do it this way and almost everyone does, at first, but not right. and not good. fourth cut, standing kesa, then cutting the top piece in the air. Good timing, ok flow, not an easy cut. But rushed, looked like he was thinking of the second cut while doing the first. Look at the impact on the first cut, not smooth, 'clunks', which moves the top piece further off than it should. Makes the cut, though. Next one, standing draw cut, same deal as kneeling. Draws, pulls back, then cuts. Very dangerous. Not iai. Some other minor issues there, too, but you get the idea.
So, successful cutting, lots of energy, reasonable focus, but still lots of technical and control issues, IMO. Keep training. Too bad the Shinkendo guys do not participate in some of the open tai kai around the US, they would probably do well, make the Toyama and Seki guys work harder
. Dave
sigh. why do I always have to be the bad guy? First, I just don't really understand why people put vids out of themselves cutting, especially if they are fairly junior. It is a nice way to document progress perhaps, but I guarantee if this gentleman looks at this in a year, or two, or more, he will be pretty embarassed. Two, not really sure that Shinkendo even permits this, as they have traditionally been not very public. Of course, that may be changing, have seen several vids of senior people in the system lately. And three, the part that bothers me is that people who do not train will see this and think it is correct, or good, or cool, and it may not be.
Ok, couple of comments, and just my opinion, so take it for what it is worth (or not). I do not do Shinkendo, do not know their cuts, but am surprised to see some fairly standard cuts used by Hataya-sensei's line of Toyama (Seibukan?). Am not in that either, but my group does their cuts for training and competition.
Anyway, overall, for that amount of time, not bad. A bit rushed, fairly consistent in that. Just a couple of specifics - third cut, draw cut from seiza - draws, pulls back, and then cuts. Extremely dangerous. cutting from the draw should be one smooth, continuous motion, cut comes directly from the saya, not from a wind up. not unusual, much easier to do it this way and almost everyone does, at first, but not right. and not good. fourth cut, standing kesa, then cutting the top piece in the air. Good timing, ok flow, not an easy cut. But rushed, looked like he was thinking of the second cut while doing the first. Look at the impact on the first cut, not smooth, 'clunks', which moves the top piece further off than it should. Makes the cut, though. Next one, standing draw cut, same deal as kneeling. Draws, pulls back, then cuts. Very dangerous. Not iai. Some other minor issues there, too, but you get the idea.
So, successful cutting, lots of energy, reasonable focus, but still lots of technical and control issues, IMO. Keep training. Too bad the Shinkendo guys do not participate in some of the open tai kai around the US, they would probably do well, make the Toyama and Seki guys work harder
Dave
Mr. Dave,
Thank you for breaking down the video. You seem to know your stuff here. Not knowing much about sword arts (very little, actually), I was rather impressed with this gentlemen's abilities and could only hope to do as well after one year of practice twice a month.
Although I understand not wanting to put out video for fear of someone seeing it and hurting themselves, your comments have left me longing to see a "seasoned" practioner of the art so the references you make could be better understood.
socho
White Belt
hi Lisa,
yes, for one year of practice, not bad. As Paul mentioned (he teaches a group in Texas, nice guy, good cutter), pretty consistent over-committing, rushing, comes from trying too hard. Pretty normal. A sword cuts, that is what it is made for, doesn't take a lot of work. The hard part is control and trying to stay in the context of applying basics and kata, not just mat-hacking. I'm still working on it, too.
As far as seeing a more senior person, lots of iai vids out on youtube and google video, but very difficult to evaluate what is there without some foundation.
Dave
yes, for one year of practice, not bad. As Paul mentioned (he teaches a group in Texas, nice guy, good cutter), pretty consistent over-committing, rushing, comes from trying too hard. Pretty normal. A sword cuts, that is what it is made for, doesn't take a lot of work. The hard part is control and trying to stay in the context of applying basics and kata, not just mat-hacking. I'm still working on it, too.
As far as seeing a more senior person, lots of iai vids out on youtube and google video, but very difficult to evaluate what is there without some foundation.
Dave
Yup, that is the problem I have. Do you know of any out there that one could look to and see a seasoned practitioner?
Not bad for a year of practice. He just needs to slow down relax and try not to mucle his way throught the cuts. In other words let the sword do the work. Still, that is pretty good for just a year.
socho
White Belt
There are very few that I would qualify as 'good' or even representative. Most are by beginners, amateurs, egomaniacs, or salesmen (or combinations thereof). That said, this one has some good stuff. A Shinkendo promo, same style as in the vid we were discussing above. Tons of fine points to talk about. For a basic draw cut, this one is good. Person is a 6th dan in Mugai Ryu. The problem is that JSA in general do not do cutting for 'show'. So if you see it online, you should already be sceptical. It is training, and to evaluate it properly you need to see it in the context of the specific art, IMO. Does not mean you can't still enjoy it.
Dave
Thank you so much Dave for taking the time and having the patience for my questions. I truly appreciate it.
socho
White Belt
you are very welcome. was a good chance to talk about issues that come up regularly. Good luck with training, let us know what you decide and how it goes.
Dave
Dave
- Thread Starter
- #14
because he has friends who wanted to see it?
because he wanted to document his progress?
because you aren't cool until you have at least one vid on YouTube LOL?
I doubt if he will be embarrassed by it, ever. To be embarrassed by the fact that at one time you were not as good as you are now is really just trying to deny that you ever had to actually learn. What kind of person would pretend that he was always as good as he is now, and be embarrassed when proof to the contrary is revealed?? hahahaha
I pointed him to this thread, maybe he will post...
Good points David. I think it is good to have a library (video) of where you came from and how you were in the beginning. Could be used in years to come to inspire others.
Good points David. I think it is good to have a library (video) of where you came from and how you were in the beginning. Could be used in years to come to inspire others.
I think it is a good idea to videotape yourself to measure your own progress. But the danger of putting your training footage in public is that you're going to subject yourself to every Tom, Dick, and Harriet's criticism - many who aren't going to know what they are talking about.
*cough* Hatman *cough*
:uhyeah:
splice42
Yellow Belt
I have heard of high-ranking iaidoka and even one soke that were embarrassed by videos that were put out with them on it, because they felt that material shouldn't have been out because their skill was not up to par to show to other people. Perhaps you'd like to laugh in their face too, I'm sure they'd enjoy that.
It's not about being embarrassed because you weren't as good once as you are now. It's about being embarrassed by publically displaying something you are not ready to display.
As far as the cutting video itself goes, I don't do shinkendo so I can't really comment on the technique. But it did seem that every cut in there was "revved" up, that the sword was swung back before the cut. In our style we cut from the position we are in. If we are in Jodan, then we cut from there, we do not swing back the sword first. If we are drawing the sword, then we cut from there, we do not draw, swing the sword back and cut. If shinkendo does it that way, then it's fine, otherwise it's a point to watch very carefully.
- Thread Starter
- #18
what? have a bad day did you? don't take it out on me. Maybe you need more prozac or less caffeine I can't tell
having a video put out without consent, as you describe, is something completely different than sharing a video to measure your progress and look for feedback.
Ninjamom
2nd Black Belt
Here is a link to a cutting video clip of someone I consider to be an advanced practitioner of Japanese sword arts. The gentleman is the South Carolina Rep. to the World Kumdo Association, and the head of the US Chanbara (sport kenjutsu) Association. He was recently asked to review a new sword line from Martial Arts Swords. The video is his cutting with the new sword against single and multiple mat, bamboo, and mat/bamboo targets.
Quality cutting with good form on multiple targets is hard enough. The fact that he was testing a loaned sword compounds my respect for his ability.
(PS: His review of the sword is posted with his video clip.)
Quality cutting with good form on multiple targets is hard enough. The fact that he was testing a loaned sword compounds my respect for his ability.
(PS: His review of the sword is posted with his video clip.)
tatsu dynamo
White Belt
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i didn't look at the vid but i wanted to put some insight on my ideals on cutting. i have been training with japnaese swords since i was four and most of my skill is self taught. i think much of kenjutsu and any sword skill that is catagorized was made by the inventor of the style. when ever you draw your sword your are writing the book of your art. i dont believe that any one has bad form in cutting, ( even if it doesnt match that which you were taught in class.) the sword should be considered an extention of your body. the body and blade should be as one. whatever movement you made on your very first strike is the basis of whatever is to come from that. everyone is built diffrent so every one will have a diffrent "self" style. as an example: musashi was a great master samurai in his era and many even today study is form and way. but if his way is the "best" and everyone studies it then why hasn't there been ten million musashis from past to present like there should be? because even if your base your self on musashi's way you still direct it in your own way. in the most direct sense, your classes are only a tiny stepping stone in your path to becoming a great swordman.
