Taoist Tai Chi Society anyone?

[East Winds]

They are a hugely rich Society with charitable status which means they dont have to pay Tax on their subscriptions! The interesting thing, is when you ask which charities they support. They definitely believe that charity begins and ends at home. They work on a pyramid selling basis and because they do not allow their members to explore other forms of Taiji, the members simply do not know any better:shrug: They state "Taoist Tai Chi is a form of Tai Chi developed by Master Moy Lin-Shin". No mention of Yang Cheng-fu then??? On second thoughts that is no bad thing. Cheng-fu would probably turn in his grave if he say what Moy had done to his form:fart:

Best wishes

 

[yilisifu]

It'd be fun to go to one of their meetings...maybe we could talk them into swinging large, heavy stones from their scrotums!!!

(See Iron Crotch thread)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[East Winds]

I'd go for that!!!!!:erg: That was the very first blind alley I went down in my Taiji training. (Taoist Tai Chi that is, not the rock swinging). :boing1:

Regards

 

[yilisifu]

Maybe that's how the posture "Snake Creeps Down" was created...someone had a very short string and a very heavy stone...

 

[chufeng]

I told you I renamed that one right?
I call it "Lizard lounges on tree limb."
I simply can't get that low anymore

chufeng

 

[yilisifu]

You could if you'd use a six-inch string and a forty-pound stone...

 

[chufeng]

With all due respect, Sifu, it would then be....BAIT.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[yilisifu]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[Maika]

Just throwing in my own two cents, but I've been doing this form of Tai Chi for about 2 months now. Safe to say that I haven't found any type of cult mentality or lack of acknowledging where the form comes from.

On my 1st day I asked a few questions as to form and styles etc., most were answered and the ones there weren't I was given resources to look up myself.

As for the money, and rich-status of the society. The classes I paid for were the cheapest around my area, and yes granted they are a charitable organization the money does get spread around. I've seen at least 2 potluck fundraisers in my short time with the society dealing with "feed the homeless" issues.

As for the instructors, I've had nothing but positive experiences. All the instructors volunteer their time and energy. This is not to say they do not know what they are doing, I've found my two 'begineer' instructors very well versed.

I guess my main point is to not jump onto the 'cult' wagon and condemn the whole practice. Critique is good, but it should be constructive and well informed.

I will eventually learn other forms of tai chi, but at this time it seems that the society provides the most accessible way (and many other people) to learn this art form.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Just throwing in my own two cents, but I've been doing this form of Tai Chi for about 2 months now. Safe to say that I haven't found any type of cult mentality or lack of acknowledging where the form comes from.

On my 1st day I asked a few questions as to form and styles etc., most were answered and the ones there weren't I was given resources to look up myself.

As for the money, and rich-status of the society. The classes I paid for were the cheapest around my area, and yes granted they are a charitable organization the money does get spread around. I've seen at least 2 potluck fundraisers in my short time with the society dealing with "feed the homeless" issues.

As for the instructors, I've had nothing but positive experiences. All the instructors volunteer their time and energy. This is not to say they do not know what they are doing, I've found my two 'begineer' instructors very well versed.

I guess my main point is to not jump onto the 'cult' wagon and condemn the whole practice. Critique is good, but it should be constructive and well informed.

I will eventually learn other forms of tai chi, but at this time it seems that the society provides the most accessible way (and many other people) to learn this art form.

Are you training with the Taoist Tai Chi Society or just training Taiji?

I think this very old thread is about the Taoist Tai Chi Society not taiji in general.

 

[newGuy12]

Just wondered if anyone else had any dealings with them........they seemed to be a bit of a closed shop even cult like? Has anyone else found their attitude to be abit strange. They seem to follow the teachings of someone called Moy Lin Shin (sp?) but their form looks to have been taken from Yang style.....

I have practiced with these people in my city before. I wished to experiment with TaiChi and get a taste of it.

So I went, and they welcomed me. I kept going until I could do the entire form with them. I felt my belly get loose, strange sensations in my belly, the muscles loosening. They explained to me that that was an expected effect of the teaching.

I asked them about some martial applications... when do we see how they are applied to fight with? They told me that they do not teach the applications. They said that they are far more interested in the health effects, particularly for senior citizens.

I myself, nowadays, have no interest in this kind of study, primarily because I do not have the patience to try to learn a martial art which takes such a LONG TIME to learn!!! That is my choice, it is a limitation of my personality!

Okay, I also wish to say this -- these people that I practiced with, who taught me this form, I have nothing bad to say about them. They were mostly members of our orchestra in this city. They are professional classical musicians. They were the nicest, most decent, fine upstanding people! They wished to benefit from this form by practicing, and by sharing it with others, never mind if they ever learned to fight.

Not once, not once did I hear anything bad about any other martial art or any other tai chi community.

I am shocked at how you users talk about these people. Perhaps I was just privy to a small group that was different? But I think not.

Now, these health benefits are REAL. There have been scientific studies done showing the benefits to the synovial fluid in the joints, particularly in the knees, from the slow motion load bearing exercise that these people teach.

They had these old people in there doing this form and they benefited from it. Everyone had a good time, no harm done. They are not claiming to be a fighting system. Never did they bring that up.

 

[grydth]

NewGuy, I enjoy your posts and respect you, but I feel differently on this one. I am happy you received some benefit, but I don't believe it was from something I would ever refer to as "Tai Chi."

Usually I am all for tolerance, and have said so repeatedly. Please understand - Nobody has appointed me Grandmaster and Final Arbiter of All Things Tai Chi on MartialTalk.... this simply is another practitioner's opinion. Others feel as strongly about my style of Tai Chi!

One man's innovation is another's heresy. But you know, it gets to where, in my opinion, some things cannot accurately be called Tai Chi or a Gong anymore. Examples are Falun Gong, Tai Chi Chi and this society.

I have a close friend whose experiences with this cult mirrors that of East Winds very closely. See the posts of his above this. Are these practices indicative of a reputable institution?

To me, it is legitimate where certain members of a Tai Chi group practice martial applications and others - beginners, nonviolents, the disabled - only practice for health and exercise. But when the roots and essence are extracted, and the martial aspect is completely absent - - - to me it is no longer Tai Chi.

Imagine we met at a Buffalo MT get together, and I invited you to join my family for a desert of chocolate cake. Afterwards, you said you kind of enjoyed the cake and I assured you it had vitamins and nutrients added. But when you persistently asked what it was made of, I admitted that my recipe had taken all of the chocolate components out. Questions : Was I initially fair and honest with you? Even though it may have been good...did I really serve you chocolate cake?

 

[newGuy12]

To me, it is legitimate where certain members of a Tai Chi group practice martial applications and others - beginners, nonviolents, the disabled - only practice for health and exercise. But when the roots and essence are extracted, and the martial aspect is completely absent - - - to me it is no longer Tai Chi.

Well, I can see now that I spoke too soon! I was too quick to run my mouth!

I admit that I was wrong to do that, and I wish to express that to you people, who share knowledge so freely and give me support in my practice with good threads to read.

Maybe it is because I am just coming back into practice, and new to this board that I have such an impetuous spirit? In any event, I will try to have restraint when I am reading things that I really know nothing about!

Regarding this society, again, I had only a passing interaction with them, and they certainly did NOT teach any kind of martial application, even to students who have been doing it for many years. So, if one is wishing to learn to fight, then this would certainly be the wrong place to look for it!

Thank you for your patience with me.

All the Best,



Robert

 

[grydth]

You are being way too hard on yourself! Actually that was a pretty detailed and valuable first hand account that you provided.

I got snookered by a questionable place once, probably lots of people here have. Pretty much the same as your experience - I came out in terrific shape.... but the art just wasn't real.

Last time I looked on their website it seems the TTCS will have the last laugh.... they were building something that looked like a James Bond villain fortress, think it was in Canada.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

When I was younger I visited The Taoist Tai chi society.
I recall how stiff everyone moved. I remember a student was having trouble performing a section involving a punch and the teacher said imagine you are punching or in another case said imagine you are blocking someone's punch. Yes they totally dismiss the martial applications, I doubt any knew what Fajing was Or knew very much details concerning Qi. I know Eva Wong who has wrote many works on Taoism had something to do with Moy but I am unsure how much she learned or was with him she dedicated one of her books to him.
As one Tai chi chuan teacher told me about Taoist Tai chi was this"There is no such thing as any Tai chi style called Taoist tai chi and all you have to do is read the Tai chi classics to see what they do is not Tai chi chuan"

 

[East Winds]

Taoist Tai Chi Society Instructors are expressly forbidden to talk about or study any other form of Taiji, or to refer to the martial aspects of the art. This was an edict from Moy himself. Interestingly enough their "badge" still bears the character for Ch'uan of "Fist". They do however run workshops on Sword, Sabre and Liu Ho Ba Fa (Lok Hup Bat Fat). I fail to understand how you can study these arts without any martial intent. (Well I do understand, because I have seen Society members performing!!!!).:rofl:

Very best wishes

 

[grydth]

East Winds, I suspect many of the new students do not know any better. Whatever the TTCS and Justin Stone the Originator of Tai Chi Chih have made up to practice, it is not Tai Chi.....

I believe each has intentionally kept "Tai Chi" in the names or their organizations to snooker newbies in. I wonder just how many people who "always wanted to try Tai Chi" are (mis)led into going to these places. If they called it "Justin Stone's Shake Your Bones", it just wouldn't have the cachet, would it?

 

[East Winds]

grydth,

I think you are absolutely right. When your a newby you don't know any better. The lure of the "charity" and the "carrot" of becoming an Instructor after about a year can be a great come-on. I attended several workshops "conducted" by Moy himself. Well I say conducted, but in reality they were run by "Moy's Boys" whilst he sat at the side and watched. I never ever saw Moy doing Tai Chi (except on video) and that wasn't all that good. There was a falling out between Moy and Eva Wong and she went her own way. Of course in the UK "Charitable Status" means you don't have to pay Value Added Tax (17.5%) on any of your takings. That is a good incentive for being a registered charity!!!!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Although the Tai Chi Chih people I have talked to all seem rather nice, I doubt the claims and background of it originator Justin Stone. However none have ever claimed it was a martial art and as far as my experience goes none have ever claimed it was Taiji, and that is a good thing because it is not Taiji

Tai Chi Chih was covered previously here by the way on MT

Tai Chi Chih
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30448&highlight=tai+chi+chih&page=2

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5208&highlight=tai+chi+chih

The Taoist Taiji society is another issue however and it is claiming to teach Taiji, which in my opinion at best is teaching neutered Taiji. Which is contributing to the demise of Taiji as a martial art. But then so are those that study Taiji for a year or 2 and then combine it with another martial (karate, aikido, Long Fist, etc.) art and claim they now do Taiji, martial Taiji and or combat Taiji when in fact they do not doing Taiji at all any more than a Yiquan person is doing Xingyiquan or vise versa

 

[grydth]

grydth,

I think you are absolutely right. When your a newby you don't know any better. The lure of the "charity" and the "carrot" of becoming an Instructor after about a year can be a great come-on. I attended several workshops "conducted" by Moy himself. Well I say conducted, but in reality they were run by "Moy's Boys" whilst he sat at the side and watched. I never ever saw Moy doing Tai Chi (except on video) and that wasn't all that good. There was a falling out between Moy and Eva Wong and she went her own way. Of course in the UK "Charitable Status" means you don't have to pay Value Added Tax (17.5%) on any of your takings. That is a good incentive for being a registered charity!!!!

One wonders who and what would be attracted by the prospect of being an instructor after only a year! I've been practicing considerably longer than that, as have many here..... yet it takes just a visit to this Forum or to my personal library for me to realize how much I have yet to learn.... and as you once noted, how many new 'secrets' are awaiting my discovery in areas I believe I do know?

There are many benefits in the USA as well if one can attain a certain tax status.

If they in fact are teaching a mutated version of the traditional Yang Long Form, do they acknowledge that lineage?