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Key word is 'discussion'. Discussing is not arguing; in a discussion each side states their opinion or perspectives and there is conversation as to each others views, the positives, the negatives, etc. and that helps facilitate discussion and understanding of each sides. Arguing is a conversation to prove or to convince others your point or your view is correct....this is a discussion forum.
To be fair, the original questions were concerning matters of fact rather than opinion. The questions were "was anyone else taught that Wing Chun is derived from the Pole?...and do any other lineages teach the idea that the Tan is for training the elbow only?" not "do you think it is correct that Wing Chun is derived from the Pole and that the Tan is for training the elbow only?"There's no 'true answer' only opinion based answers to your opinion based question. So hence the 'no win debate'
Yes trap, cause you disguise the trap as " just another informal survey"
Next time just call them out? No need for trickery.
Key word is 'discussion'. Discussing is not arguing; in a discussion each side states their opinion or perspectives and there is conversation as to each others views, the positives, the negatives, etc. and that helps facilitate discussion and understanding of each sides. Arguing is a conversation to prove or to convince others your point or your view is correct.
And you are correct in that Martial Talk is a 'discussion' forum.
To be fair, the original questions were concerning matters of fact rather than opinion. The questions were "was anyone else taught that Wing Chun is derived from the Pole?...and do any other lineages teach the idea that the Tan is for training the elbow only?" not "do you think it is correct that Wing Chun is derived from the Pole and that the Tan is for training the elbow only?"
The second of these would be a call for opinions. The first would be a call for factual answers like "Yes. My instructor, Bruce Leroy of the xyz lineage always said that Wing Chun unarmed methods were derived from the Pole." or "No. I've trained under the abc lineage for 15 years and never heard either of those claims."
No Tony just pointed out my opinion statement may have been wrong? Ok I own it! But you did admit that they were your targets because you couldn't get them to respond on other threads? If it walks like a duck and.......Exactly! Like I already stated, I was simply trying to find out if I was missing something. No traps and no trickery. Thanks Tony!
All good.I am guilty of being passionate about Wing Chun. I am guilty of wanting to see things stated accurately and truthfully...
There is no right or wrong only the consequences.
No Tony just pointed out my opinion statement may have been wrong? Ok I own it! But you did admit that they were your targets because you couldn't get them to respond on other threads? If it walks like a duck and.......
This is the mentality I want all WC students and masters to share.
After all, only the things you know from use are true for you. Meaning they may not be the truth to others. Just a bit allergic when someone else states what must be true for me. Therefore my opinion is always that I see no facts supporting a statement and as such the statement is flawed. There are no facts in history, only stories.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Just another informal survey here. Does anyone know which lineages other than Wong Shun Leung lineage teach the idea that Tan Sau is only a shape for training the elbow and has no practical application on its own? I have only seen that from WSL lineage people and would like to know who else teaches this. Thanks!
Speaking of words, you (again) twist what I said above.
You posted: "After all, you were the one that said originally that the idea was in more lineages than just WSL."
No, I didn't. I posted: "Stay calm...there are other lineages other than the 3 or 4 you've apparently learned in their entirety.
Setting a trap? No. If they had the answer it was no trap. I had asked these very questions within other threads and the avoided answering. So I made the question very explicit and opened it up to others to chime in if they had the answer. If I was wrong, I truly wanted to know and was seeking input. A "no win debate"? No. I was just looking for an true answer. Both questions were pretty simple.....was anyone else taught that Wing Chun is derived from the Pole?...and do any other lineages teach the idea that the Tan is for training the elbow only? No debate. Just answers. But it has become obvious that they had no answers. So a trap? No. Calling them out. Yeah. ;-)
I'm afraid I have been away while you were having your great call out and self declared victory. What's going on now?