Takedown Defense

[Gerry Seymour]

That's pretty common. However if you spent more time building your takedown offense, your takedown defense would also improve as a consequence.



This is an area which is sadly often neglected.

Standup arts tend to not cover it at all or else come up with bogus methods which are ineffective because they've never been tested against a competent opponent.

BJJ practitioners often neglect it because they typically want to fight on the ground.

Judo players often neglect it because a) a match can be ended by a good throw and b) groundwork time is limited, so it's easier to just stall and wait for a standup then do the work of fighting to the feet.

Freestyle/folkstyle wrestlers are some of the best at escaping to the feet. Modern MMA fighters are getting good at it too.

I periodically make my students practice sparring where they have to get back to their feet after a takedown. I think that without that practice it's too easy for BJJ players to get complacent on the ground.

If a standup striker asks me what I can teach them of value in a short time, my number one answer is to show them how to escape bad positions on the ground and get back to their feet safely.

It's an easy trap to fall into, in training. Though I'm a stand-up fighter, when I'm training and teaching on the ground, I tend to focus on the ground and my approach slips toward the BJJ concepts of controlling down there. I have to specifically put in training where we get taken down (or start from kneeling) and have to rise, to counter that tendency.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You would be a good partner to train with.

Yeah. I think Tony'd probably eat me alive if he laid hands on me, but I'd learn a ton from the experience.

 

[Martial D]

Sprawl is effective, but only against certain takedowns. It actually makes others easier.

True story. Judo guy I used to train with did this thing where he shot a double, got low on one knee and went sideways into this over the back low hip toss thing(sorry for my lack of judo vernacular, he called it some Japanese name).

Sprawling just made you land harder. Oof.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Not much h to add to this, other than get good at doing takedowns yourself. Once you understand a takedown on a functional level it's much easier to defend it or counter it.

#11 on my list.

 

[wingchun100]

Sprawl is effective, but only against certain takedowns. It actually makes others easier.

I find It works best on the double leg takedown, or when someone has come in super deep.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I find It works best on the double leg takedown, or when someone has come in super deep.

Yes. If they shoot in for your legs (and that's actually their intended target) sprawling works. There are counters to it, like the one Martial D mentioned. And there are counters to those counters (deeper level of takedown defense).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Knee to groin.

You may just give your opponent a free single leg. IMO, it's not a good idea to kick (or knee) a wrestler.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

You may just give your opponent a free single leg. IMO, it's not a good idea to kick (or knee) a wrestler.

There's a time and place for it.

• When you've already stuffed the wrestler's takedown entry
• When you are clinched with a superior control position
• When you are confident in your ability to escape or counter the opponent's single leg

Of course, this generally implies that you are a competent grappler yourself.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Show me any technique from stance, to execution, to end. And I'll show you where the basics occurred.

You can have 2 options:

1. Get away.
2. Take advantage on it.

If your opponent tries to "under hook" your arm, you can

1. keep your arm straight up so his arm will have nothing to under hook with.
2. use his under hook as your free over hook and apply your over hook throw.

When your opponent tries to grab on your wrist, you can

1. move your arm that he can't grab on your wrist.
2. let him grab on your wrist so you can apply wrist lock on him.

Most of the take down defense just stay on 1. In order to do 2, you will need to have wrestling skill yourself.

IMO, 2 > 1

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

There's a time and place for it.

• When you've already stuffed the wrestler's takedown entry
• When you are clinched with a superior control position
• When you are confident in your ability to escape or counter the opponent's single leg

Of course, this generally implies that you are a competent grappler yourself.

From a wrestler's point of view, the only good striker is a striker who is on the ground.

If you are a wrestler, you don't want to knee your opponent while standing. You want to knee him while he is on the ground. Try to take your opponent down ASAP is the general guideline for all wrestlers. Stand up knee striking just prolong that stand up game and too many thing can happen.

A wrestler will sacrifice a striking opportunity in order to obtain a throwing opportunity.

If your

- hand can push on your opponent's shoulder and take him down, your hand can punch on his face as well.
- knee can strike at your opponent's groin, your leg can "cut" your opponent's leg and take him down as well.

 

[TMA17]

I hope to be learning these techniques in my MMA class so I can avoid learning BJJ lol. It’s very good to know.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'd say it's fair that the person teaching has to be able to do the takedown (so they truly understand the mechanics, and so there's something to practice against). I might manage to defend against that leg throw KFW posted, because I've done a lot of grappling and defended against a lot of different things, some of which share mechanics with that. I probably can't effectively teach a specific defense to that throw, because my responses would be by "feel" rather than considered counters.

I'll make sure that I dedicate a special section on my self-defense website to see if I can surprise you. My challenge will be to teach you an effective take down defense without actually teaching the takedown that you'll be defending with. Then you can give it a try to see how effective you are with using it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

From a wrestler's point of view, the only good striker is a striker who is on the ground.

If you are a wrestler, you don't want to knee your opponent while standing. You want to knee him while he is on the ground. Try to take your opponent down ASAP is the general guideline for all wrestlers. Stand up knee striking just prolong that stand up game and too many thing can happen.

A wrestler will sacrifice a striking opportunity in order to obtain a throwing opportunity.

If your

- hand can push on your opponent's shoulder and take him down, your hand can punch on his face as well.
- knee can strike at your opponent's groin, your leg can "cut" your opponent's leg and take him down as well.

I think that assumes the wrestler is not also a striker.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'll make sure that I dedicate a special section on my self-defense website to see if I can surprise you. My challenge will be to teach you an effective take down defense without actually teaching the takedown that you'll be defending with. Then you can give it a try to see how effective you are with using it.

I'd be interested in seeing that. My point wasn't that you have to teach the takedown, but that they have to actually defend against it, which means you need to be able to do it for them to defend.

While most people suck at it, I do think it's theoretically possible to teach a defense for something you don't know how to do, but then students never get to practice it. Of course, at some point, you're teaching principles rather than specific counters, so all of us eventually learn defenses to techniques we've never even seen.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

to teach you an effective take down defense without actually teaching the takedown that you'll be defending with.

How will someone be able to teach counters for:

- MT flying knee,
- TKD spin back kick,
- Judo leg lift,
- SC leg twist,
- ...

if he can't do that technique himself?

 

[Martial D]

I hope to be learning these techniques in my MMA class so I can avoid learning BJJ lol. It’s very good to know.

Why would you avoid bjj? Most MMA grappling is bjj

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I hope to be learning these techniques in my MMA class so I can avoid learning BJJ lol. It’s very good to know.

IMO, "cut" is more logical and advance than "single leg". You use your leg to hook up your opponent's leading leg instead of using your hand. The advantage of cut over single leg is your both hands are still free to deal with your opponent's hands.

Before you have developed any "leg skill", you may use single leg or double legs. After you have developed your leg skill, you will use cut, break, lift, sweep, scoop, inner hook, knife hook, twist, spring, bite, ...

Here is a similar technique to the cut. Instead of to hook your opponent's leading leg from outside, you hook his leading leg from inside - knife hook.

 

[TMA17]

Why would you avoid bjj? Most MMA grappling is bjj

Grappling just doesn’t appeal to me. I’d honestly just like to know the very basics and how to avoid being taken down. BJJ is an awesome art it’s just one I’m not interested in learning.

 

[Martial D]

Grappling just doesn’t appeal to me. I’d honestly just like to know the very basics and how to avoid being taken down. BJJ is an awesome art it’s just one I’m not interested in learning.

Well, that's fair. You'll always have a handicap in your game without it though.

 

[wab25]

From a wrestler's point of view, the only good striker is a striker who is on the ground.

If you are a wrestler, you don't want to knee your opponent while standing. You want to knee him while he is on the ground. Try to take your opponent down ASAP is the general guideline for all wrestlers. Stand up knee striking just prolong that stand up game and too many thing can happen.

A wrestler will sacrifice a striking opportunity in order to obtain a throwing opportunity.

If your

- hand can push on your opponent's shoulder and take him down, your hand can punch on his face as well.
- knee can strike at your opponent's groin, your leg can "cut" your opponent's leg and take him down as well.

I don't consider striking and throwing as an "either or" thing. Sometimes, it can be an "and" thing.

If I push my opponents shoulder, I want his weight going backwards for some type of rear throw... If I punch him in the face, I should get a similar effect, especially if I drop the punching hand to his shoulder for the push.

In your video there, you could throw a horizontal knee to his stomach first, then swing it past the leg and finish your o'soto gari. (foot never touches ground here, in this combo) Or you could throw a vertical knee to the groin and finish with the "inside knife hook to the leading leg" throw in post #37.

I don't object to what you say... but I don't limit my options either. I can punch/kick, I can throw or I can do both... better yet I can use one to set up the other.